SteveE Posted 9 January , 2004 Share Posted 9 January , 2004 Are there any pals out there who can tell me anything about this man? His award of the MM appears in the London Gazette 1 September 1916. Can the action be identified or do I need to visit the PRO and check the War Diary? His MIC indicates he served with 1st Battalion Hampshire Regiment, finally achieving rank of Sergeant. Can anybody decipher the content of the MIC for me? V & BWM C/1/103 B/9 14 STAR C/1/1 CL & R. IV. 453/C 21.7 CLASP/2/3226 Other Details: 31.8.14 (Would this be his date of enlistment or overseas posting?) Any and all help much appreciated. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 9 January , 2004 Share Posted 9 January , 2004 You need to e-mail Marc Thompson about this one. The codes after the medals relate to the respective medal rolls. The codes need to be translated to a WO 329 number which you can then use to order the respective document at TNA. 31.8.14 is the date of entering a theatre of war in his case France. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Thompson Posted 9 January , 2004 Share Posted 9 January , 2004 Steve, I'll get back to you with some further information tomorrow. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 9 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2004 Ian/Marc Thanks for the help so far, look forward to learning a bit more tomorrow. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorts Posted 9 January , 2004 Share Posted 9 January , 2004 Steve, A translation follows: 'V & BWM C/1/103 B/9' Victory Medal and British War Medal on medal roll reference C/1/103 B/9. See WO/329 as Ian suggests. '14 STAR C/1/1' 1914 Star on medal roll reference C/1/1. 'CL & R. IV. 453/C 21.7' Clasp and Rosettes on roll reference IV. 453/C 21.7 'CLASP/2/3226' Obviously this refers to the clasp, it might be the number of the clasp issued to him. '31.8.14' date first entered a theatre of war. There should also be a reference to a theatre of war 1a France and Flanders (F & F). The rosettes were for wear when ribbons alone were worn to indicate entitlement to the August-November clasp to the 1914 Star. Rgds, Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 10 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 10 January , 2004 Alex Thanks for the translation, I have a bit more of an idea what I'm looking for now. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 10 January , 2004 Share Posted 10 January , 2004 'CL & R. IV. 453/C 21.7' Clasp and Rosettes on roll reference IV. 453/C 21. NO! - The clasp to the 1914 Star is shown on the medal roll of the 1914 Star in the extreme right hand column - it does not have its own roll. In addition there was only one clasp, apart from MID, awarded on WW1 medals. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorts Posted 11 January , 2004 Share Posted 11 January , 2004 Ian, I am willing to conceed the point about the clasp being indicated on the 14 star roll itself. However, I thought the reference may refer to the clasp being earned with a unit seperate from that with which the individual qualified for the star, and hence on a different roll. This is not pure speculation - I once researched a man whose 14 star was named to a unit that was not awarded a clasp, yet his medal had a clasp and it was confirmed on the MIC. I stand by my comment that the rosettes were for wear when ribbons alone were worn to indicate entitlement to the August-November clasp to the 1914 Star. There was only one clasp to the 1914 star (I don't believe I have suggested there were two - in the following sentence I refer to 'the clasp', i.e. the same one). I do state the 'number of the clasp' as many rolls state the number of the medal & clasp issued as distinct from a service number or number of medals issued to an individual. Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Thompson Posted 11 January , 2004 Share Posted 11 January , 2004 Steve, As he was with 1st Hampshire's I had a look at Sgt Eeles MIC and Medal Roll entries at TNA today. For information, the clasp is the 5th Aug - 22nd Nov 1914 'bar' for the 1914 Star. This signified that Pte Eeles, as he was then, was an original member of the BEF who had actually served under the fire of the enemy in France or Belgium between the dates mentioned above. This meant that he also qualified as an Old Contemptible. As indicated by Alex the small silver 'rose' or 'clasp' was intended to be worn on the medal ribbon whilst in civilian clothes or in undress uniform. It is not unusual to see these attached to the main medal ribbon though. There was only the one 'clasp' or 'rosette' for the 1914 Star. The entry shown for the Star medal roll reference should say CL & R. IV. 453/C 21.7.22 As Ian has pointed out the clasp to the 1914 Star is shown on the medal roll of the 1914 Star in the extreme right hand column and does not have its own roll. I believe that the "IV" section of the code against the Star roll reference means that the 'Bar' was issued under cover of Issue Voucher #453 of 21st July 1922. 'CLASP/2/3226' probably refers to some voucher / roll / index entry system which was being used by a particular medal record office at a given time. I am not convinced that this is any indication of separate qualification for the Star and 'Bar' with different units. There is no indication on the Medal Rolls that this would be the case. If you wish to obtain copies of the relevant Medal Roll entries TNA references are as follows: 1914 Star - WO329/2455 Page 37 V & BWM - WO329/1268 Page 971 In this instance, the Medal Rolls provide no additional information other than that already included in this thread. The date of entering an operational theatre of war and the 'qualification' date shown on the MIC and Star Roll respectively both show 31.08.14. I understand that sometimes this is the actual disembarkation date, sometimes the embarkation date (very common), and sometimes it even appears to be the date upon which the unit received orders to move to the port of embarkation, maybe one or two days before embarkation took place. In the case of 1st Hampshire's (11th Brigade, 4th Division) they embarked from Southampton on 22.08.14 and disembarked the following day in Havre, France. They entrained for Le Cateau on 24.08.14. It is possible that Pte Eeles formed part of a later draft or reinforcement. The Battalion or Brigade War Diary may provide some additional information if you are interested. N.B. In this case the MIC does not include an entry for the operational theatre of war. In my experience, this is not uncommon for MIC entries for the original members of the BEF. Normally, an alphanumeric code will denote the theatre of war and sometimes the name is also included as well. It is worth noting that the alphanumeric codes used for personnel who only saw their first operational service from 1 January 1916 onwards, will differ slightly from those personnel who saw operational service before this date, e.g. To 31.12.15 = 1, from 1.1.1916 = 1a. I also took the opportunity today to look for Sgt Eeles service record in TNA references WO363 and WO364, unfortunately with no luck so far. I do have another microfilm left to look at though. I can provide you with the microfilm reference numbers that I looked at if needed. The MM entry for Pte Eeles in the September supplement of the London Gazette can be found Here. This will not tell you what the medal was awarded for as in the vast majority of cases 'citations' for MM's were not published in the LG. There is also no central record of these 'citations'. The MM recommendations did once exist, but they were destroyed in bombing during WW2. We are therefore left with digging in war diaries, unit histories, soldiers records and regimental archives, etc with probably little chance of finding anything about the circumstances behind the award. Local newspapers sometimes reproduced 'citations' and these may be your best bet. Pte Eeles MM award is listed in both the regimental history and regiment journal (September 1916) but there is no further elaboration. Whilst I will have a look next week in the Battalion War Diary I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope in finding anything. That said, a number of MM recommendations are included with the 2nd Hampshire's War Diary for the same period, so you never know! I did check the Brigade War Diary today with no luck. In terms of calculating the gap between the deed and appearance of notification in the LG, a rough average is about three to five months. This gives you a very rough time-frame of March to June 1916. May I inquire into your interest in Sgt Eeles? Regards Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 11 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 11 January , 2004 Marc Many thanks for such a comprehensive and enlightening reply and if you are able to look up the War Diary of the 1st Hampshires then that and any further help would be very much appreciated. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->May I inquire into your interest in Sgt Eeles?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> My interest is from a family point of view. I'm in the process of trying to research the Great War military history records of my Great Grandfather Walter Eeles and his three brothers (as you may have realised from other threads on this forum). Great Grandfather Walter Eeles served with 25th Bn Royal Fusiliers (Frontiersmen), Great Grand Uncle Robert Eeles served with a "Yorkshire Regiment", Great Grand Uncle Charles Eeles served pre-war with Ox. & Bucks. L.I. but do not know his WW1 history and Great Grand Uncle Richard Eeles served with 1st Hampshires (or so I hope to prove as I've currently got a scenario that fits the facts available but without the definite proof). Thanks again for your help. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Thompson Posted 12 January , 2004 Share Posted 12 January , 2004 Steve, I'll see what else I can find out for you next time I visit TNA. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 12 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2004 Marc Thanks for everything! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Thompson Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 Steve, As I suspected the Battalion War Diary failed to include any reference to Pte Eeles and the circumstances behind his MM award. I have also now checked for his service papers in WO363 / WO364, again without any luck. Seems that local newspapers may be your best (only remaining?) bet to locate any further details for his MM. To give you an idea of content here is the MM recommendation for Pte 15935 Harrison Parkinson, Hampshire Regt: "On the morning of July 2nd 1916 Pte Parkinson went out into No Mans Land in daylight bringing in wounded. This he did in spite of the fact that the enemy had been sniping and had shelled them with shrapnel. Altogether, Pte Parkinson brought in eleven wounded men." Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 18 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2004 Marc Thanks for taking the time to look, as you suggest it now looks as if local newspapers are the last remaining chance of finding any info on his MM award. Hopefully I can prove that he is indeed my great grandfathers brother and then I will know which local papers to search. Thanks again. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 19 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2004 Great Grand Uncle Richard Eeles served with 1st Hampshires (or so I hope to prove as I've currently got a scenario that fits the facts available but without the definite proof). And today the definite proof dropped through my letterbox, birth certificate of his son states father's occupation as Private, 1st Hampshire Regiment. then I will know which local papers to search. Looks like a trip to Colindale and the newspaper library is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 16 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 16 February , 2004 After informing our resident Hampshire Regiment expert of my findings and at his (very sensible) suggestion, don't know why I didn't do it before, I just thought I'd post this to show that information is out there if you know where to look and to tidy up the loose ends of this thread . After finding Private Richard Eeles' birthplace (Stow-on-the-Wold) from his son's birth certificate I was able to track down the local papers of the time at the Stow library and with help from a very efficient and friendly lady librarian was able to find the relevant article about his MM award (the reason for this thread). Evesham Journal & Four Shires Advertiser 19th August 1916 Page 5 STOW MAN WINS MILITARY MEDAL Lance-Corpl. Richard Eeles, Hampshire Regiment, has been awarded the Military Medal for gallantry before the enemy on July 1, and was decorated with four others by General Plumer on August 7, behind the lines. Lance-Corpl. Eeles, whose home is at Stow-on-the-Wold, where his wife and three children reside, is the third son of the late David Eeles and Mrs. Eeles, of Temple Guiting. He volunteered for service during the South African War for which he has a medal and four bars. He was called up on August 6, 1914 and has been present with his regiment at each engagement since the battle of the Aisne, September, 1914, being once slightly wounded. He has two brothers, four brothers-in-law and a nephew at present serving their country. Not only did I get the date of his award and call up, I also now know he served in South Africa (2nd Hampshires from the QSA medal roll if you were wondering) and that I've got five other family members to research. Just goes to show what a mine of information local newspapers can be. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted 17 February , 2004 Share Posted 17 February , 2004 Thats great news Steve- the newspapers are brilliant sources for info. that would otherwise have been lost altogether in the mists of time. If at anytime he was granted leave home from the Front you may find that there is an additional piece in the paper about the "Returning Hero".Keep your eyes peeled! Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Thompson Posted 7 July , 2004 Share Posted 7 July , 2004 Steve, I've just come across another little snippet from the Hampshire Regimental Journal concerning Pte Eeles: The casualty list on page 115 (April 1915) includes the following: 21/02/1915 Sick 6209 Pte Eeles R. 4th Stationary Hospital, Versailles Unfortunately, nothing more to add other than this small entry but I'll keep my eyes open for anything else. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 7 July , 2004 Author Share Posted 7 July , 2004 Marc Fantastic! Little snippet it might be but every little helps. Thanks for remembering and taking the time to post the details. It really is appreciated. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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