Gallipoli Books

[Halder]

It's a very basic analysis. I want to expand on it a lot more. There's only so much magic you can work in 10 minutes and 2000 words! I am really interested in the topic, so I would like to maybe write a much longer piece. Perhaps I will do it in the winter after exams are finished.

Lynz

2,000 words? Doddle. On my last paper no lead story should be more than 350 words. Well, there's nothing like in-depth journalism... and that was nothing like it That said my manuscript on the fall of Poland is coming in at 140,000 words (only 10,000 over the agreed limit)

[PoW1988]

I think it's totally unreasonable. 2000 words to cover something as huge as Gallipoli makes me cry! I can't put in nearly enough information and detail in that, but hey, I am only a second year so they wont be expecting dissertations yet.

Lynz

[Michael Molkentin]

Considering that this is for a university paper I would suggest that you don't rely on Carlyon; although he is a great story teller his analysis is pretty light on.

Denis Winter's '25 April 1915' book throws up some interesting stuff on the landings at Anzac, particularly in regards to planning. Tim Travers is essential reading too- he has published an article on Command at Gallipoli "Command and Leadership Styles in the British Army 1915: The Gallipoli Model" in the Journal of Contemporary History- search your uni's journal database).

Nigel Steel's work is definitely worth checking out.

Peter Stanley's "Quinn's Post" is a top read too, and presents a different view of the campaign at Anzac.

All the best.

Michael

[PoW1988]

Essay is already submitted my friend. Thank you for your suggestion though!

Lynz

[trajan]

I haven't seen a review ( as opposed to passing comments) of "The Suvla Bay Landing" by John Hargrave, a book I am thinking of buying as it is a field of action I find interesting. Anyone want to comment?

[Guest]

A dreadful book. 

[MaureenE]

 

2 hours ago, trajan said:

I haven't seen a review ( as opposed to passing comments) of "The Suvla Bay Landing" by John Hargrave, a book I am thinking of buying as it is a field of action I find interesting. Anyone want to comment?

If it is the same book as the following title, it is available online

At Suvla Bay: Being The Notes And Sketches Of Scenes, Characters And Adventures Of The Dardanelles Campaign Made By John Hargrave ("White Fox" Of "The Scout ") While Serving With The 32nd Field Ambulance, X Division, Mediterranean Expeditionary Force, During The Great War 1916 Archive.org

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

[trajan]

11 hours ago, QGE said:

A dreadful book. 

 

Would you please give a more precise comment? E.g., it is dreadful because it is inaccurate, badly written, biased, etc.? I have never really looked at any part the Gallipoli campaign partly because of the (apparently, to me) over-emphasis on the ANZAC side of things, and so I'd like to learn more on what seems to be the most ignored part of the whole campaign'.

 

9 hours ago, Maureene said:

 

If it is the same book as the following title, it is available online

At Suvla Bay: Being The Notes And Sketches Of Scenes, Characters And Adventures Of The Dardanelles Campaign Made By John Hargrave ("White Fox" Of "The Scout ") While Serving With The 32nd Field Ambulance, X Division, Mediterranean Expeditionary Force, During The Great War 1916 Archive.org

 

Don't know but possibly not!

 

Amazon have: The Suvla Bay Landing Hardcover, as a Macdonald & Co. 1st Edition (1964), and the Wiki info on the author lists both "At Suvla Bay (1916)" and "The Suvla Bay Landing (1964)". Perhaps the 1964 is a revised edition of the 1916?

 

Thanks for the link, though, which I have downloaded.

 

Julian

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, trajan said:

 

Would you please give a more precise comment? E.g., it is dreadful because it is inaccurate, badly written, biased, etc.? I have never really looked at any part the Gallipoli campaign partly because of the (apparently, to me) over-emphasis on the ANZAC side of things, and so I'd like to learn more on what seems to be the most ignored part of the whole campaign'.

 

It is badly written. The author was a Sgt in one of the British Field Ambulances and has an extremely narrow perspective on things. It is written in an extremely quirky style and the chapters are disjointed. It reads like a series of short essays. It will tell you very little about the campaign.

 

For a more interesting read, albeit from the perspective of a subaltern in the 10th Irish Division, I would recommend Suvla Bay and After which is available online. It was written under the pseudonym 'Juvenis' and is allegedly the work of a subaltern  -  Lt O G E McWilliam - in the 5th Bn Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers. It describes in graphic detail his few days on the peninsula and the taking of the KTS ridge, his wounding, near death and his subsequent evacuation. The evacuation part is important because so many men (as a percentage of those who fought) probably went through the rather grisly process. It is a very gritty account. 

 

For a one volume primer of the whole campaign, anything by Peter Hart, or if you are more adventurous, the two volume Official History by Aspinall Oglander which some academics regard as the best and most faithful of the Official Histories. Most histories are strategic histories. Much of the British history remains unwritten at Divisional, Brigade and Battalion level. There are no histories of the 13th Division, 11th Division, 54th Division or the Yeomanry Division at Gallipoli for example. There are reasonably good Divisional histories of the 29th Div, 52nd, 42nd and 10th Irish Divs  and RND which cover the campaign well. 53rd Div's history is a work of semi-fiction in my view. The problem with Gallipoli is that its (British) participants felt rather left in the penumbra of the long shadow cast by the Western Front, and while some formations fought on both, Gallipoli was always seen as a Side Show. One modern author tells us that outside the Western Front things were "decidedly less hazardous" which, if one looks at the casualty stats for the British infantry formations at Gallipoli is a rather ill-informed view. 

 

There are a few excellent Battalion histories that cover the campaign. This is one of the very few areas that I would consider myself have an 'informed' view. MG

[paulgranger]

Helion are publishing a number of books about Gallipoli over the next year, including histories of the South Wales Borderers, and the 6/Royal Irish Rifles, another book about the Landing at Anzac, a ollection of essays on aspects of the whole Gallipoli campaign, and a comparison of Gallipoli and the Western Front. Whether any or all of these books will be goo, bad or indifferent remains to be seen, but as they are being published by Helion, they will, at least be affordable

[trajan]

1 hour ago, QGE said:

... I would recommend Suvla Bay and After which is available online. It was written under the pseudonym 'Juvenis' and is allegedly the work of a subaltern  -  Lt O G E McWilliam - in the 5th Bn Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers....

 

Thanks for the overview and for your suggestions, and I have accessed the above.

 

47 minutes ago, paulgranger said:

Helion are publishing a number of books about Gallipoli over the next year, 

 

Thanks - and I hope that they are affordable! Even with the drop in the GBP a Turkish salary doesn't go a long way, especially as the TL is dropping also!

 

Julian

Edited 26 October , 2016 by trajan

[KGB]

I have Masefield's book is it worth a few quid?

[MaureenE]

5 hours ago, trajan said:

 

Thanks for the link, though, which I have downloaded.

 

Julian

 There are a number of books about Gallipoli available online, which are linked from the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Gallipoli

http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/Gallipoli

 

Cheers

Maureen

[trajan]

58 minutes ago, Maureene said:

 There are a number of books about Gallipoli available online, which are linked from the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Gallipoli

http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/Gallipoli

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

There are indeed! But as "Fools rush in...", then I guess I'd better set aside the winter break this year (we don't have 'C*******s' breaks here) for reading... Then I'll see what I can come up with re: Suvla!

 

Julian 

[Dust Jacket Collector]

6 hours ago, KGB said:

I have Masefield's book is it worth a few quid?

Sadly not. Like most of his output it's quite common, even in its jacket.

[David Filsell]

Elizabeth Balmer in Stand To! Had a good article about Hunter Bunter's strong objections to the Gallipoli escapade if that approaches your area.

[trajan]

On 10/26/2016 at 11:22, QGE said:

... I would recommend Suvla Bay and After which is available online. It was written under the pseudonym 'Juvenis' and is allegedly the work of a subaltern  -  Lt O G E McWilliam - in the 5th Bn Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers. It describes in graphic detail his few days on the peninsula and the taking of the KTS ridge, his wounding, near death and his subsequent evacuation. The evacuation part is important because so many men (as a percentage of those who fought) probably went through the rather grisly process. It is a very gritty account. 

 

Just finished - thanks. Not as gritty as might be expected, as the author kept that bit of sang froid throughout the telling. Not surprised to see he was wounded so badly so quickly, but nice to see the reality of active warfare so succinctly phrased - an hour if one was lucky after a year's training, and if you were really lucky, alive, and if not so lucky, wounded or dead...

 

I was, though, somewhat amused by the 'stereotypes' of the Ozzies! And note the Turkish skull with fez in the box bound for "darn under", the origin of many a story?...

 

Julian