Krupp Field Gun

[Jeff Shrader]

Newest addition to the collection - a Krupp 75mm field gun.

I am sure there are plenty of guys here who know a lot more about these things than I do, so I will be grateful for any additional information. I am working on some text to accompany this gun in a display next February, and want to be sure that I have the most accurate data possible.

So far I have determined that it is a 75mm field gun, as was made under license in other countries (Japan for example), and in Germany for direct export to others. It seems to be something of the "AK-47" of its day - made in large numbers with very suble variations by and for a number of different client states, many of which were on opposite sides when the big war broke out.

I have also been able to determine what it is NOT:

A: Belgian (unfortunately - that would have been very nice!). Belgian Krupp 75's have a distinctive sight port cover. If you know of a Belgian gun for sale, please let me know. I would be extremely happy to acquire one.

B: Japanese - documented Japanese guns have Japanese inscriptions cast into the breech

C: South American - these guns also tend to have national crests and inscriptions prominently featured on the breech.

D: Italian - trail handles are a different configuration

Here are some of the other possibilities:

A: Turkish - I know that a number of these were used by the Turks, but I do not know if they are inscribed in Turkish. Photos of war memorials in Australia that I have seen (identical gun) mention an inscription, but not whether or not it is on a data plate or plauque, or simply cast into the breech.

B: Dutch - there are photos out there of captured Dutch Krupp 75's being used by German units as secondary defense weapons during WWII.

C: Austrian - I have no documentation (yet) of the Austrians buying Krupp 75's prior to the war, but two things make me think this a likely possibility. First, the gun was made in Germany and not under license on some other continent. Second, somehow this one found its way back to the USA as a war souvenir in a part of the US where the local National Guard division faced Austrians on the Western Front.

D: Romanian?

Any thoughts you might have will be very much appreciated!!

more photos

[johnreed]

I know that Romania bought 360 of this model M1903 Gun.

John

[Robert Dunlop]

It would be interesting to know if the Austrian forces had their own divisional artillery with them, or whether the artillery was supplied by Germany and manned by German gunners.

Robert

[centurion]

Its possible that this gun was a beute kannon - ie captured and put into service again - it could indeed have been a Romanian gun originally but ended up on the WF - under KuK ownership?

[Greg]

Lucky man- what a fabulous piece.....did you rescue it from being a 'guard gun'?

Do any Krupp records exist in Germany that you could consult or were they all destroyed in war?

Another line of enquiry might be to contact the artillery museums in each country which had them and see if they have records of serial numbers or even whether it was the practice to have guns marked with the monarch's cipher/ coat of arms as is the Commonwealth practice-this would have the negative effect of ruling out certain countries, although it still leaves you with the problem of whether or not the gun was captured and reused or not If it was re-used by Austrian gunners there would need to be records of the purchase of 'non standard' ammunition, unless of course they had ammunition that fitted .

Regards

Greg

[James Blonde]

Hallo Gents.

With regards Romanian Artillery the following from: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?act=idx

Some information with regards Romanian Krupp's.

http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?sh...amp;hl=krupp+75

also posted by member: dragos03

Actually the Bulgarian army also had 75mm Krupp cannons. The Romanian army captured several batteries that were installed in the Turtucaia fortress and used against their previous owners in 1916.

He was answered by member: Agarici

Dragos, Romania imported the first Krupp 75 mm cannons for its army as early as in 1868 (bronze-made). I was not referring to Krupp 75 mm cannons in general nor to fortifications guns (as those you mentioned could have been) but to the model 1904 rapid-firing Krupp cannon, which use smokeless gunpowder and was an improved model of the rapid-firing Krupp model 1899, the latter being the standard field gun of the German army in WW1. Now I don't know if Bulgaria had any of those. In the period, in Romania the gun was known as "tunul roman de 75 mm cu tragere rapida" (the Romanian 75 mm raid-firing cannon) because of the modifications Krupp manufacturer had to do to its initial specifications, following the requests of a Romanian technical commission.

A picture of a Krupp cannon in my possession.

http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?sh...amp;hl=krupp+75

and:

http://www.geocities.com/dangrecu/index.html

http://www.geocities.com/dangrecu/ArmArtCamp.html

Connaught Stranger (living in Transylvania)

[bob lembke]

It would be interesting to know if the Austrian forces had their own divisional artillery with them, or whether the artillery was supplied by Germany and manned by German gunners.

Robert

Robert;

I do know that heavy Austrian guns appeared on the Western Front again in 1918; e.g., the famous 30.5 cm mortars. They would not have been divisional artillery, probably, but their appearance would suggest that divisional artillery was brought along.

There was a trick with mortars; 82 mm mortars could fire 81 mm rounds, but not the other way about. But I guess that it would be unwise to fire a 75 mm shell from a 77 mm field gun; certainly a 75 mm could not fire a 77 mm shell. Anyone know about this? Why German field guns were 77 mm, not the ubiquous 75 mm?

Bob Lembke

[bob lembke]

Jeff;

I know of a 75 mm WW II PAK painted purple and parked on the lawn of a Philadelphia lawn. The area is indifferent, and possibly the gun is available.

Bob Lembke

[Guest bobcatotago]

As the former owner of the Turkish 75mm modell 1903 L/30 Feldkanone Nr 488, manufactured by Fried Krupp AG, Essen, in 1907, and captured by the Warwickshire Yeomanry at Huj, Palestine, on 8 November 1917, I can confirm that your gun is clearly a more advanced model than the Krupp 75mm M'03 L/30, and that the breech markings are not those found on Turkish-issue guns. This weapon looks more like the Krupp 75mm M'05, although the shield looks more like that used on the Krupp 75mm M'06.

Incidentally, the Warwickshire Yeomanry Regiment's trophy gun is now on display in the Regimental Museum, Warwick, England (photo attached of Nr 488 in the Huj Room in the Old Courthouse, Warwick).

Kind regards

Aaron Fox (New Zealand)

[inners]

Hi Jeff,

Maybe an answer about the Krupp 75mm field gun. The Australian army captured a large number of these guns in 1918 on the way to Damascas and many are now used as war monunets throught the country. Last week I stumbled accross one in Whiteman Park in Western Australia. The breech of the gun is inscribed in Arabic with (which was used in Turkey prior to the late 1910's I believe) with the words (or similar - I had an Iranian friend translate):

Rear - "Friedrick, Krupp, in Essen?"

Top: Manufactured 1323 (Arabic date = 1905)

The gun is in poor condition, but looks very similar to your photos.

Regards,

Inners

Newest addition to the collection - a Krupp 75mm field gun.

I have also been able to determine what it is NOT:

A: Belgian (unfortunately - that would have been very nice!). Belgian Krupp 75's have a distinctive sight port cover. If you know of a Belgian gun for sale, please let me know. I would be extremely happy to acquire one.

B: Japanese - documented Japanese guns have Japanese inscriptions cast into the breech

C: South American - these guns also tend to have national crests and inscriptions prominently featured on the breech.

D: Italian - trail handles are a different configuration

Here are some of the other possibilities:

A: Turkish - I know that a number of these were used by the Turks, but I do not know if they are inscribed in Turkish. Photos of war memorials in Australia that I have seen (identical gun) mention an inscription, but not whether or not it is on a data plate or plauque, or simply cast into the breech.

B: Dutch - there are photos out there of captured Dutch Krupp 75's being used by German units as secondary defense weapons during WWII.

C: Austrian - I have no documentation (yet) of the Austrians buying Krupp 75's prior to the war, but two things make me think this a likely possibility. First, the gun was made in Germany and not under license on some other continent. Second, somehow this one found its way back to the USA as a war souvenir in a part of the US where the local National Guard division faced Austrians on the Western Front.

D: Romanian?

Any thoughts you might have will be very much appreciated!!

more photos

[28juni14]

...there are several cosmetic differences present on Krupp export off-the-shelf-models of their 75mm M1903/05/06 field guns. This was one of the most successful items Krupp sold after the turn of the century.

The splinter shield of the M1906 gives some clue. Note the "ears" extending over the wheels. This was a feature on models exported to , and licence built in Italy. Late follow-up orders for Turkey also carried this feature. On early versions fo the gun the splinter shield extends approximately 6 inches higher, and does not have "ears".

Next notice the gunner seat braces. On the M1906 they are rounded, and conform to the wheel curvature. ( Two export versions existed; sheet metal similar to the FK96/nA, and skeletal. ) On the earlier models they are skeletal only, and do not conform to the wheels curvature.

Lastly, the barrel shroud came in 3 different variations. The smooth round small shroud, the large round shroud, and a "shaped" shroud. The latter oddity is most prominant on Italian licence built versions.

The sight appeture hole in the shield is noteworthy. All versions of the gun came with either a hinged vertical opening, or a horizontal sliding cover. The pictured example appears to have this appeture severly altered; perhaps to provide speedier acclimation of the sight picture.

I would hazard a guess that this is a "beute" Italian piece. Hundreds were captured along with quantified supplies of ammunition, and the KuK was not shy to employ them. This fits nicely in the story of this gun falling into AEF hands late in the war on the Western front. The KuK troops deployed there were grade "C" in quality, and their divisional artillery was 2nd line with quite a number beute pieces in sevice.

[CharlieBris]

May I resurrect this thread?

The Turkish Army had 4 shipments of 7.5cm L/30 guns before WW1

1905 - 462 - 7,5cm L/30 Krupp FK C/03

1910 - 90 - 7,5cm L/30 Krupp FK C/09

1911 - 88 - 7,5cm L/30 Krupp FK C/11

1914 - 54 - 7,5cm L/30 FK (no model specified)

[source: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php...a5&start=15]

Many of the early (1905) ones do have a Turkish inscription on the top and rear of the breech. The later ones seem to have only a serial

no. in Latin script and a Krupp symbol.

There is a restored M03 at Moora in Western Australia - the local historical society had the inscription translated. It translates as:

"Made by Krupps in Essen, Germany, Gun number 393. Made 1905 for the Turkish Army"

I've been told the squiggly text line on top of the breech with the backwards 7s is the gun number.

I'd really like to nail down the differences between models in the Krupp 7.5cm guns - there are at least 5 of these guns in Queensland which aren't all the same

version.

Also - where in Whiteman Park is the M03? I have a colleague in WA who might be interested in looking at it.

Regards,

Charlie

[inners]

Hi Charlie,

The gun at Whiteman Park is at the Mussel Pool section, it's near a patio (shelter Q) which is about 100m west of the ice cream stand there.

The link to teh park maps is: http://www.whitemanpark.com.au/visitorinformation/parkmap.aspx

Regards,

Inners

May I resurrect this thread?

The Turkish Army had 4 shipments of 7.5cm L/30 guns before WW1

1905 - 462 - 7,5cm L/30 Krupp FK C/03

1910 - 90 - 7,5cm L/30 Krupp FK C/09

1911 - 88 - 7,5cm L/30 Krupp FK C/11

1914 - 54 - 7,5cm L/30 FK (no model specified)

[source: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php...a5&start=15]

Many of the early (1905) ones do have a Turkish inscription on the top and rear of the breech. The later ones seem to have only a serial

no. in Latin script and a Krupp symbol.

There is a restored M03 at Moora in Western Australia - the local historical society had the inscription translated. It translates as:

"Made by Krupps in Essen, Germany, Gun number 393. Made 1905 for the Turkish Army"

I've been told the squiggly text line on top of the breech with the backwards 7s is the gun number.

I'd really like to nail down the differences between models in the Krupp 7.5cm guns - there are at least 5 of these guns in Queensland which aren't all the same

version.

Also - where in Whiteman Park is the M03? I have a colleague in WA who might be interested in looking at it.

Regards,

Charlie