Ralph J. Whitehead Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 I have no idea if the postcard showing prisoners supposedely taken at Gommecourt in July 1916 is accurate or what unit(s) they might represent. The photo was supposed to have shown men captured on 1 July 1916. Are there any British uniform/unit experts out there that might be able to help me? I look forward to your answers. Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 Ralph, Great photo!!!!! The three kilted men are 1/14 London Scottish!!!! The man in center is wearing his hodden grey kilt with-out apron--you can see the fringe. All three have light blue torries stuck in their helmet covers also. See if you can get a list of captured London Scots that might help. The right hand OR in trousers is (?). I would assume some one from the 56th Division. The two others wearing trouses in the background are ? Looks like they are wearing German FeldMutzes. This might be possible. Unlikely any soldier had any type of headgear except his tin hat, especially those not issued Tams or other easily foldable head gear. Photos of prisoners in this time period commonly show only helmets, bare heads or men who removed the helmet liners and are wearing them like caps (looks like a beenie hat). So the germans may have given them mutzes out of the kindness of their hearts. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Armstrong Custer Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 Ralph, as Joe says - what a great photo! The captured Scots manage to look more in command of the situation than their captors - their whole demeanor is one of barely caged aggression. Joe, how nice to see you here still in action - I had greatly missed your expertise of late on the First World War forum, particularly when questions of equipment or standing orders were looking for answers. You were especially helpful to me a couple of years back over the identification of a 1st Prussian Footguards Stahlhelm - well met indeed! Regards, George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 The men look quite dishevelled, so would that suggest that the picture was not taken on 1st July 1916? I know the weather had been wet prior to 1st July, but wasn't it a hot, dry day for the attack? Would it have been muddy enough to result in their clothing looking like that on the day? Just my thoughts, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 Ken, I would have thought that the guns would have churned up the mud etc and also if it was me i would have been digging down for protection at some point. Also the man on the right has a wound that looks to me as 'fresh'. That said they dont seem as 'battle shocked' as i would have expected seeing what they had gone through. If it says captured on 1st july it does not necesserily mean photo taken on 1st. It could be a few days later. Arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 18 January , 2004 Share Posted 18 January , 2004 Ralph - I have a very similar picture to this, with the same background, which I always thought was London Scottish POWs, but nice to have this confirmed. I will try and fish it out, and post it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 1 February , 2004 Share Posted 1 February , 2004 Ralph - as promised the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 2 February , 2004 Share Posted 2 February , 2004 Ralph, Gommecourt was then a pile of rubble. This photo could have been taken at Bapaume , far enough away to avoid total destruction from 7 day bombardment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Parker Posted 2 February , 2004 Share Posted 2 February , 2004 I'd like to raise a couple of points on these photographs. 1. The building in the background is quite a substantial one with iron grills over the windows. A Prison in a larger town maybe??? 2. When did helmet covers get issued, I thought it was late 1916 before manufacturered ones appeared on the battlefield. If you look at film footage KNOWN to be shot during the early Somme battles, no helmet covers are being worn. Maybe Joe knows the answer??? Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Parker Posted 2 February , 2004 Share Posted 2 February , 2004 Okay, forget the second question just seen Joe's response on another thread about helmet covers. Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 2 February , 2004 Share Posted 2 February , 2004 It is likely to be in Achiet le Grand, or one of the villages north of Bapaume up towards Arras. It isn't in Gommecourt, which was in poor condition at this time to say the least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munce Posted 2 February , 2004 Share Posted 2 February , 2004 One of the soldiers in the second photo seems to have a makeshift bandage over his eyes -- could this indicate a mustard gas casualty, and therefore a later date? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph J. Whitehead Posted 2 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 2 February , 2004 The bandages seen on several of the men were probably rough field dressings from either there own troops or possibly German, probably caused by any of a dozen types of wounds that could have been suffered on the Somme. If mustard gas then everyone would probably be in the same condition and being treated as litter cases. Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 2 February , 2004 Share Posted 2 February , 2004 The men look quite dishevelled, so would that suggest that the picture was not taken on 1st July 1916? I know the weather had been wet prior to 1st July, but wasn't it a hot, dry day for the attack? Would it have been muddy enough to result in their clothing looking like that on the day? In the Gommecourt sector is was wet throughout June 1916. There was no rain on only 9 days between 1st June and 1st July. The trenches, especially the front line ones, were very wet as was the ground generally. The soil around Gommecourt very easily turns to a clinging mud and anyone would have got pretty muddy just walking up the communication trenches let alone sheltering in the front line trenches in the hours before the attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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