HMS Glatton

[Terry Denham]

The date errors mentioned above have been corrected.

[melliget]

Martin,

Source: The Great War - I Was There vol 3

Article accredited to Capt W J Pearce, skipper of Dover tug "Lady Brassey"

There is too much to type out, so I just give a precis:

snip

Thanks very much for that, Ian. Much appreciated. Doesn't say one way or the other about casualties still aboard when she was torpedoed, does it. I take your point about the anomalies in some of the details of the report. As "per ardua per mare per terram" pointed out, the Court of Enquiry proceedings are available so perhaps the answer is to be found there. I did a quick search of Bookfinder and see that Sir Roger Keyes wrote a book entitled "Memoirs Scapa Flow to the Dover Straits 1916-1918" - perhaps he made some mention of the loss. I will likely follow this up at some point in the future.

regards,

Martin

The date errors mentioned above have been corrected.

That's great. Thanks for doing that, Terry.

Martin

[ian turner]

Martin

Sorry if I did not make it clear - yes the article did indeed report that there were casualties still on board. I left out the lurid bits about the screams/etc in my precis. But the whole sad story revovled around the fact that Keyes had to decide on torpedoing the vessel despite knowing there were men still on board.

Ian

[wulsten]

Great that the post has also been useful in date ammendments, cheers all

[Bob H]

Martin,

The Captain writing the article at first mentions the coaling, but then repeatedly says that there was smoke/gas from the burning fuel oil!

Ian

During the convertion to a monitor, the boilers were converted to dual coal-oil-firing. She could carry 364 tons of coal and 171 tons of fuel oil. The possibility of burning oil is therefore quite likely correct.

Regards

Bob

[Orson]

Are you only looking for those who died on the day of the explosion?

I have come across a Cook's Mate, H G King, who served on the H.M.S. 'Glatton' and who died on 21/09/1918, and is buried in Wells cemetery. I assume he died of wounds received on the day of the explosion.

Orson

[melliget]

During the convertion to a monitor, the boilers were converted to dual coal-oil-firing. She could carry 364 tons of coal and 171 tons of fuel oil. The possibility of burning oil is therefore quite likely correct.

Regards

Bob

Thanks very much, Bob. Appreciated. It's amazing the depth of knowledge on this forum.

cheers,

Martin

[melliget]

Are you only looking for those who died on the day of the explosion?

I have come across a Cook's Mate, H G King, who served on the H.M.S. 'Glatton' and who died on 21/09/1918, and is buried in Wells cemetery. I assume he died of wounds received on the day of the explosion.

Orson

Thanks, Orson. Your contribution is welcome. I've add his name to the casualty list that appears earlier in this thread. Yes, seems that he survived the initial explosion but was wounded and succumbed to his injuries days later. This may be the missing casualty to explain why The Times reported 80 casualties and I could only find 79. Or there may be others that are still to be found..? It would be made easier if the CWGC allowed searching on unit/ship.

cheers,

Martin

[SiegeGunner]

It would be made easier if the CWGC allowed searching on unit/ship.

Martin,

See post #2. I searched Glatton using Geoff's very wonderful search engine and got 98 hits. It will do the ship search (of the CWGC database) that CWGC's own search engine will not. Just put Glatton into the 'unit text' box. http://www.hut-six.co.uk

Mick

[melliget]

Sorry and thanks, Mick. I came into the thread further down and somehow missed your post. I think I came across Geoff's search page once previously, but had forgotten about it (now bookmarked). You get 98 hits on Glatton. I only get 73. Are you doing anything else before kicking off the search?

[SiegeGunner]

No, Martin. When I searched on Glatton at the time I wrote post #2, I got 98 returns — now, like you, I get only 73. No idea why, I'm afraid — on both occasions I entered the single search term Glatton in the 'unit text' box.

[melliget]

That's strange, Mick. You know, I think your figure of 98 (when you searched originally) is probably closer to the mark than 80. I've just cross-checked the 73 names from Geoff's site search with the names already listed above and there are 13 additional names (see below). That makes a total of 93 so far, so suspect there are probably another 5 hiding somewhere.

BELL, NORMAN, Stoker 2nd Class, d.27/09/1918, HORDEN (THORPE ROAD) CEMETERY

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=354570

BELLAMY, J., Private (R.M.L.I.), d.17/09/1918, LEYTONSTONE (ST. PATRICK'S) ROMAN CATHOLIC CEMETERY

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=355994

GATENBY, JOHN WILLIAM, Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, FULFORD CEMETERY

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=407959

GILLIVER, JAMES, Private (R.M.L.I.), d.16/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=365553

GLOVER, MAURICE JOHN, Warrant Schoolmaster, d.22/09/1918, DARESBURY (ALL SAINTS) CHURCHYARD

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2747676

GRUNDY, L. E. F., Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, BOURNEMOUTH EAST CEMETERY

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=362350

HARFIELD, A. H., Leading Stoker, d.18/09/1918, HOOK (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2758263

LACKEY, JOSEPH THOMAS, Stoker 1st Class, d.21/09/1918, CAMBERWELL OLD CEMETERY

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=382147

LLOYD, EDWARD JOHN, Leading Signalman, d.29/09/1918, BANDON HILL CEMETERY

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=399991

LOCKIE, THOMAS CORBETT, Engineer Lieutenant, d.07/10/1918, PEEBLES CEMETERY

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=664207

McCLAY, DAVID SUGDEN, Able Seaman, d.21/09/1918, BRADFORD (UNDERCLIFFE) CEMETERY

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=411526

NELSON, W. H., Boy 1st Class, d.17/09/1918, DEAL CEMETERY

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=365324

POPE, CHARLES, Leading Stoker, d.19/09/1918, HENDON CEMETERY

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=388176

Two of these are a number of days after the date of the explosion (16/09/1918), Norman Bell and Edward Lloyd, 11 and 13 days respectively. I wonder if these were as a result of injuries from the explosion or some other cause.

Thanks.

Martin

p.s. Just a guess but the "H" in W. H. Nelson may be Horatio, for obvious reasons. Coincidentally, I seem to recall noticing a William Horatio Nelson in a list recently (not sure if it was The Times or London Gazette).

[ian turner]

Not sure if you got this chap:

Name: KING, SAMUEL ARTHUR

Initials: S A

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Able Seaman

Regiment/Service: Royal Navy

Unit Text: H.M.S. "Glatton."

Age: 31

Date of Death: 19/09/1918

Service No: 229853

Additional information: Son of Mrs. Ellen King, of 1, Trafalgar Terrace, Abbey Rd., Merton.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: E. 7. 10.

Cemetery: MERTON (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD

Ian

[ian turner]

+

[SiegeGunner]

There's a link there between Ian's post and the previous one — Admiral Nelson's pew and funeral hatchments are preserved at St Mary's, Merton. It's no distance from here and I could get a pic of Samuel King's headstone, if wanted.

Mick

[melliget]

Not sure if you got this chap:

Name: KING, SAMUEL ARTHUR

No we hadn't, Ian. We have H. G. KING, Cook's Mate, but not Samuel. Thanks for that. I think I need to consolidate the lists of previous posts into one complete (?) list for clarity. Or perhaps upload it as a text file attachment. Can anyone tell me if forum attachments get crawled by the Google "spider", or only the message text?

regards,

Martin

[simonharley]

I'm somewhat surprised that noone else has mentioned what actually happened on 16th September, 1918 yet.

An explosion occurred on "Glatton" at about 18.15 in the evening, followed by fierce burning amidships. As mentioned in the article the "Lady Brassey" went alongside to try and extinguish the fire, other boats assisting. The fire in the midship 6-inch magazine was out of control, as seen by Keyes and Commander Diggle when they boarded via the "Lady Brassey". Keyes and Diggle, working from the forecastle were able to get the forward magazines flooded but the fire blocked the way to the aft flooding controls located on the main deck. The seacocks for the rear of the ship were also unreachable.

Keyes' options were governed by the fact that the ammunition ship "Gransha" lay in the next berth 150 yards away. He boarded the destroyer "Cossack" and had her fire an 18-inch torpedo in "Glatton", which as Bob Henneman mentioned failed to fire due to the safety mechanism - the distance being too close. At 19.40 "Cossack" tried again, and blew a hole in the starboard bulge. This was inadequate and Keyes then boarded "Myngs", which at 20.15 delivered two torpedoes into "Glatton's" side and keeled over to starboard, almost turtle at 148° to the vertical.

Ian Buxton, whose excellent "Big Gun Monitors" I am quoting, gives the casualty list at;

1 Officer and 59 men missing.

124 injured of whom 19 died on injuries.

A total of 79 dead.

"Glatton" lay in Dover Harbour for so long because the Admiralty apparently did not have the salvage equipment to do the job. Every salvage firm it tried either refused or quoted an extortionate sum. Eventually Captain John Iron, the Dover Harbourmaster offered to do the job and work commenced in May, 1925 and the ship was raised in March, 1926. The hulk was then beached at the north-eastern end of the harbour and demolition completed in 1927.

Simon

[Neil Clark]

If anyone wants a photo of the Glatton's memorial in Woodlands Cemetery, Gillingham just email me.

[Guest geoff501]

No, Martin. When I searched on Glatton at the time I wrote post #2, I got 98 returns — now, like you, I get only 73. No idea why, I'm afraid — on both occasions I entered the single search term Glatton in the 'unit text' box.

Mick,

On the weekend 5/6 January I had to upgrade the search engine server memory since it was running low. Two of the search engine index files did not successfully ftp copy (stopped somewhere in 'S'). This would explain the low result given between that time and when this error was corrected a few days ago.

cheers,

Geoff

[SiegeGunner]

Many thanks, Geoff - back to 98 now. Your extraordinarily wonderful search engine is brilliant for exploring the enormous mass of the Army, but when it comes to ships, it's unparalleled. I just searched the name of a tiny armed fishing smack and found all the members of her crew. It's apparent from another thread on war grave photography projects that CWGC is now willing to partner with specialists who can add value to their database, and I think the time has surely come to invite them to host your engine on their servers.

Mick

[melliget]

Thanks, Geoff. I found the four I was missing.

For the record, the total casualties for HMS Glatton were 98, not the 80 quoted in The Times. Here's the consolidated list. Unless noted otherwise, casualties listed below are RN, date of death 16/09/1918 and final resting place the Gillingham (Woodlands) Cemetery.

ALFORD, ALFRED, Petty Officer Stoker

ALLANTON, GEORGE, Ordinary Seaman

AMES, WILLIAM, Stoker 1st Class

ANDREWS, F. W. (Frederick William), Master at Arms, d.03/10/1918, GOSPORT (ANN'S HILL) CEMETERY

AYLING, H. F., Petty Officer Stoker, d.25/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (KINGSTON) CEMETERY

BAKER, ALBERT, Stoker 1st Class

BALCOMBE, JAMES, Chief Gunner, d.18/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (MILTON) CEMETERY

BARLOW, BERTRAM, Able Seaman

BEATTY, ALFRED, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class

BELL, NORMAN, Stoker 2nd Class, d.27/09/1918, HORDEN (THORPE ROAD) CEMETERY

BELLAMY, J., Private (R.M.L.I.), d.17/09/1918, LEYTONSTONE (ST. PATRICK'S) ROMAN CATHOLIC CEMETERY

BENNETT, WILLIAM STEPHEN, Stoker 1st Class

BENSON, JOHN WILLIAM, Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class

BOYLAND, CHARLES, Private, Royal Marine Light Infantry, d.02/10/1918, HEMYOCK CEMETERY

BRIDGE, THOMAS, Stoker 1st Class

BROWN, WILLIAM THOMAS, Able Seaman, d.21/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY

CARD, WALTER ALBERT, Stoker 1st Class

CAVE, HENRY, Petty Officer Stoker

CLIFTON, ROBERT, Ordinary Seaman

COPP, WILLIAM JACOB, Petty Officer

COSTELLO (aka SNOWBALL), ROBERT, Stoker 2nd Class, d.17/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY

COWDREY, CHARLES, Chief Engine Room Artificer

CURT, ALBERT, Ordinary Seaman

DICKSON, THOMAS, Stoker 1st Class

DREW, REGINALD JAMES BLAKENEY, Lieut-Commander

GATENBY, JOHN WILLIAM, Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, FULFORD CEMETERY

GENEE (aka GENCE), RAPHAEL AUGUSTE, Petty Officer Stoker

GILLIVER, JAMES, Private (R.M.L.I.), d.16/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY

GLOVER, MAURICE JOHN, Warrant Schoolmaster, d.22/09/1918, DARESBURY (ALL SAINTS) CHURCHYARD

GREENWOOD, RALPH DUKE, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class

GROVE, WILLIAM GEORGE, Stoker 1st Class

GRUNDY, L. E. F., Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, BOURNEMOUTH EAST CEMETERY

HARDEN, PERCIVAL JACK ROBERTS, Ordinary Seaman

HARDEN, WILLIAM FREDERICK, Able Seaman, RNVR

HARFIELD, A. H., Leading Stoker, d.18/09/1918, HOOK (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD

HEATH, CHARLES BENJAMIN, Stoker 1st Class

HENSHAW, ALBERT HAROLD, Cook's Mate, d.19/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (MILTON) CEMETERY

HILL, ALFRED HERBERT, Officer's Cook 1st Class

HOWARD, CHARLES, Stoker 1st Class

JOHNS, RICHARD, Private (R.M.L.I.), d.21/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (EASTNEY OR HIGHLAND ROAD) CEMETERY

JOHNSON, ALFRED JOSEPH, Stoker 1st Class

JONES, WILLIAM TREVOR, Stoker 1st Class

KING, H. G., Cook's Mate, d.21/09/1918, WELLS CEMETERY

KING, SAMUEL ARTHUR, Able Seaman, d.19/09/1918, MERTON (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD

KNAPP, EDWIN, Stoker 1st Class

KNIGHT, ROBERT, Stoker 1st Class

LACKEY, JOSEPH THOMAS, Stoker 1st Class, d.21/09/1918, CAMBERWELL OLD CEMETERY

LAKE, WALTER, Petty Officer

LLOYD, EDWARD JOHN, Leading Signalman, d.29/09/1918, BANDON HILL CEMETERY

LOCKIE, THOMAS CORBETT, Engineer Lieutenant, d.07/10/1918, PEEBLES CEMETERY

MACKIE, THOMAS BREBNER, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class

MAKIN, CHARLES THOMAS, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class

MARTIN, A. K. (Arthur Kenneth), Officer's Cook 1st Class, d.21/09/1918, GOSPORT (ANN'S HILL) CEMETERY

MARTIN, PETER, Petty Officer

MCCLAY, DAVID SUGDEN, Able Seaman, d.21/09/1918, BRADFORD (UNDERCLIFFE) CEMETERY

MILLER, FREDERICK JOHN, Stoker 1st Class

MILLS, THOMAS RICHARD, Stoker 1st Class

MOGER, CHARLES WILLIAM, Private, R.M.L.I.

MOTTRAM, ALFRED HENRY, Leading Stoker

NELSON, W. H., Boy 1st Class, d.17/09/1918, DEAL CEMETERY

NETTLESHIP, WILLIAM, Stoker 2nd Class

ODDY, J. H. (John Haralio), Leading Cooks Mate, d.25/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (KINGSTON) CEMETERY

OWEN, GEORGE ARTHUR, Chief Petty Officer

POPE, CHARLES, Leading Stoker, d.19/09/1918, HENDON CEMETERY

RHODES, FRANK, Shipwright 2nd Class

ROBSON, GEORGE COLLINGWOOD, Stoker 1st Class

ROWE, R. W., Stoker 2nd Class, d.17/09/1918, DALTON-LE-DALE (HOLY TRINITY) CHURCHYARD

SAVE, G. A., Carpenter's Crew, d.17/09/1918, FULHAM PALACE ROAD CEMETERY

SCORER, THOMAS, Stoker 2nd Class

SHADWELL, FREDERICK WILLIAM, Engine Room Artificer 3rd Class

SHAW, ALFRED BERNARD, 3rd Class Waiter

SIMPSON, FREDERICK WALTER, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class

SMALL, MARTIN, Stoker 2nd Class

SMITH, THOMPSON, Stoker 2nd Class

SOLLERS, PERCY, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class, d.17/09/1918, LLANTILIO PERTHOLEY (ST. TEILO) CHURCHYARD

SPENCE, JOSEPH, Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY

SPOONER, ALBERT HENRY, Able Seaman, d.26/09/1918, FUNTINGTON (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD

STAMP, TOM, Petty Officer Stoker

STARKEY, CHARLIE AGUSTA, Petty Officer Stoker

STENSON, WALTER, Stoker 1st Class

STOKER, J., Stoker 1st Class, d.25/09/1918, SUNDERLAND (MERE KNOLLS) CEMETERY

STUBBS, GEORGE, Stoker 2nd Class

SULLIVAN, MICHAEL, Shipwright 2nd Class

TAYLOR, GEORGE HENRY, Stoker 1st Class

VASS, A. S., Able Seaman, d.18/09/1918, FLEET (ALL SAINTS) CHURCHYARD

VAUGHAN, C. H., Plumber's Mate, d.28/09/1918, WREXHAM CEMETERY

WARWICK, L. C., Signal Boy, d.19/09/1918, BOURNEMOUTH EAST CEMETERY

WAUGH, MATTHEW, Stoker 2nd Class

WEIR, ROBERT, Able Seaman, d.16/09/1918, DALZIEL (AIRBLES) CEMETERY

WELLS, R., Leading Stoker, d.23/09/1918, EFFINGHAM (ST. LAURENCE) CHURCHYARD

WHITE, R. G. (Robert George), Leading Stoker, d.17/09/1918, GOSPORT (ANN'S HILL) CEMETERY

WHITINGTON, JOHN JAMES, Boy Servant

WILDING, STANLEY EDGENTON, Signalman, RNVR, d.21/09/1918, CITY OF LONDON CEMETERY AND CREMATORIUM, MANOR PARK

WILKINSON, ERNEST WALTER, Stoker 1st Class, d.27/09/1918, FARNHAM (UPPER HALE) CEMETERY

WILLS, JOHN, Stoker 2nd Class

WINSTONE, ALBERT EDWARD, Boy 1st Class, d.17/09/1918, BECKENHAM CREMATORIUM AND CEMETERY

WRAY, ROBERT MCGREGOR, Leading Stoker

YEWMAN, ALEXANDER, Able Seaman, d.17.09/1918, CITY OF LONDON AND TOWER HAMLETS CEMETERY

regards,

Martin

[historydavid]

My apologies for only just finding this thread.

Admiralty death records show a total of 98 casualties, including 39 that died later from wounds, and that 2 men served under aliases.

If anyone wants a copy to compare with Martin's send me an email address, because Excel files will not go thro' the forum mail system.

Best wishes

David

[Guest Skynner]

For the record a old friend of mine has the wooden wheel from Glatton at his home in Crowborough. 6 foot across in great condition.

His father who ran a resturant in Folkestone in the 50's and bought it there from a antique shop.

Peter

[simonharley]

That would be an exceptional piece of history to own.

Harley

[Guest kyn]

Hi, i thought i would join and add a picture of the memorial.

Was there a reason the casualties were sent to Gillingham? I would have assumed they would have been buried in Dover!