Terry Denham Posted 9 January , 2008 Share Posted 9 January , 2008 The date errors mentioned above have been corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melliget Posted 10 January , 2008 Share Posted 10 January , 2008 Martin, Source: The Great War - I Was There vol 3 Article accredited to Capt W J Pearce, skipper of Dover tug "Lady Brassey" There is too much to type out, so I just give a precis: snip Thanks very much for that, Ian. Much appreciated. Doesn't say one way or the other about casualties still aboard when she was torpedoed, does it. I take your point about the anomalies in some of the details of the report. As "per ardua per mare per terram" pointed out, the Court of Enquiry proceedings are available so perhaps the answer is to be found there. I did a quick search of Bookfinder and see that Sir Roger Keyes wrote a book entitled "Memoirs Scapa Flow to the Dover Straits 1916-1918" - perhaps he made some mention of the loss. I will likely follow this up at some point in the future. regards, Martin The date errors mentioned above have been corrected. That's great. Thanks for doing that, Terry. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 11 January , 2008 Share Posted 11 January , 2008 Martin Sorry if I did not make it clear - yes the article did indeed report that there were casualties still on board. I left out the lurid bits about the screams/etc in my precis. But the whole sad story revovled around the fact that Keyes had to decide on torpedoing the vessel despite knowing there were men still on board. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulsten Posted 11 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 11 January , 2008 Great that the post has also been useful in date ammendments, cheers all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob H Posted 11 January , 2008 Share Posted 11 January , 2008 Martin, The Captain writing the article at first mentions the coaling, but then repeatedly says that there was smoke/gas from the burning fuel oil! Ian During the convertion to a monitor, the boilers were converted to dual coal-oil-firing. She could carry 364 tons of coal and 171 tons of fuel oil. The possibility of burning oil is therefore quite likely correct. Regards Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orson Posted 18 January , 2008 Share Posted 18 January , 2008 Are you only looking for those who died on the day of the explosion? I have come across a Cook's Mate, H G King, who served on the H.M.S. 'Glatton' and who died on 21/09/1918, and is buried in Wells cemetery. I assume he died of wounds received on the day of the explosion. Orson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melliget Posted 18 January , 2008 Share Posted 18 January , 2008 During the convertion to a monitor, the boilers were converted to dual coal-oil-firing. She could carry 364 tons of coal and 171 tons of fuel oil. The possibility of burning oil is therefore quite likely correct. Regards Bob Thanks very much, Bob. Appreciated. It's amazing the depth of knowledge on this forum. cheers, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melliget Posted 19 January , 2008 Share Posted 19 January , 2008 Are you only looking for those who died on the day of the explosion? I have come across a Cook's Mate, H G King, who served on the H.M.S. 'Glatton' and who died on 21/09/1918, and is buried in Wells cemetery. I assume he died of wounds received on the day of the explosion. Orson Thanks, Orson. Your contribution is welcome. I've add his name to the casualty list that appears earlier in this thread. Yes, seems that he survived the initial explosion but was wounded and succumbed to his injuries days later. This may be the missing casualty to explain why The Times reported 80 casualties and I could only find 79. Or there may be others that are still to be found..? It would be made easier if the CWGC allowed searching on unit/ship. cheers, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 19 January , 2008 Share Posted 19 January , 2008 It would be made easier if the CWGC allowed searching on unit/ship. Martin, See post #2. I searched Glatton using Geoff's very wonderful search engine and got 98 hits. It will do the ship search (of the CWGC database) that CWGC's own search engine will not. Just put Glatton into the 'unit text' box. http://www.hut-six.co.uk Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melliget Posted 19 January , 2008 Share Posted 19 January , 2008 Sorry and thanks, Mick. I came into the thread further down and somehow missed your post. I think I came across Geoff's search page once previously, but had forgotten about it (now bookmarked). You get 98 hits on Glatton. I only get 73. Are you doing anything else before kicking off the search? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 19 January , 2008 Share Posted 19 January , 2008 No, Martin. When I searched on Glatton at the time I wrote post #2, I got 98 returns — now, like you, I get only 73. No idea why, I'm afraid — on both occasions I entered the single search term Glatton in the 'unit text' box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melliget Posted 19 January , 2008 Share Posted 19 January , 2008 That's strange, Mick. You know, I think your figure of 98 (when you searched originally) is probably closer to the mark than 80. I've just cross-checked the 73 names from Geoff's site search with the names already listed above and there are 13 additional names (see below). That makes a total of 93 so far, so suspect there are probably another 5 hiding somewhere. BELL, NORMAN, Stoker 2nd Class, d.27/09/1918, HORDEN (THORPE ROAD) CEMETERY http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=354570 BELLAMY, J., Private (R.M.L.I.), d.17/09/1918, LEYTONSTONE (ST. PATRICK'S) ROMAN CATHOLIC CEMETERY http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=355994 GATENBY, JOHN WILLIAM, Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, FULFORD CEMETERY http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=407959 GILLIVER, JAMES, Private (R.M.L.I.), d.16/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=365553 GLOVER, MAURICE JOHN, Warrant Schoolmaster, d.22/09/1918, DARESBURY (ALL SAINTS) CHURCHYARD http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2747676 GRUNDY, L. E. F., Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, BOURNEMOUTH EAST CEMETERY http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=362350 HARFIELD, A. H., Leading Stoker, d.18/09/1918, HOOK (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2758263 LACKEY, JOSEPH THOMAS, Stoker 1st Class, d.21/09/1918, CAMBERWELL OLD CEMETERY http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=382147 LLOYD, EDWARD JOHN, Leading Signalman, d.29/09/1918, BANDON HILL CEMETERY http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=399991 LOCKIE, THOMAS CORBETT, Engineer Lieutenant, d.07/10/1918, PEEBLES CEMETERY http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=664207 McCLAY, DAVID SUGDEN, Able Seaman, d.21/09/1918, BRADFORD (UNDERCLIFFE) CEMETERY http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=411526 NELSON, W. H., Boy 1st Class, d.17/09/1918, DEAL CEMETERY http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=365324 POPE, CHARLES, Leading Stoker, d.19/09/1918, HENDON CEMETERY http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=388176 Two of these are a number of days after the date of the explosion (16/09/1918), Norman Bell and Edward Lloyd, 11 and 13 days respectively. I wonder if these were as a result of injuries from the explosion or some other cause. Thanks. Martin p.s. Just a guess but the "H" in W. H. Nelson may be Horatio, for obvious reasons. Coincidentally, I seem to recall noticing a William Horatio Nelson in a list recently (not sure if it was The Times or London Gazette). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 22 January , 2008 Share Posted 22 January , 2008 Not sure if you got this chap: Name: KING, SAMUEL ARTHUR Initials: S A Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Able Seaman Regiment/Service: Royal Navy Unit Text: H.M.S. "Glatton." Age: 31 Date of Death: 19/09/1918 Service No: 229853 Additional information: Son of Mrs. Ellen King, of 1, Trafalgar Terrace, Abbey Rd., Merton. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: E. 7. 10. Cemetery: MERTON (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 22 January , 2008 Share Posted 22 January , 2008 + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 22 January , 2008 Share Posted 22 January , 2008 There's a link there between Ian's post and the previous one — Admiral Nelson's pew and funeral hatchments are preserved at St Mary's, Merton. It's no distance from here and I could get a pic of Samuel King's headstone, if wanted. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melliget Posted 22 January , 2008 Share Posted 22 January , 2008 Not sure if you got this chap: Name: KING, SAMUEL ARTHUR No we hadn't, Ian. We have H. G. KING, Cook's Mate, but not Samuel. Thanks for that. I think I need to consolidate the lists of previous posts into one complete (?) list for clarity. Or perhaps upload it as a text file attachment. Can anyone tell me if forum attachments get crawled by the Google "spider", or only the message text? regards, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonharley Posted 22 January , 2008 Share Posted 22 January , 2008 I'm somewhat surprised that noone else has mentioned what actually happened on 16th September, 1918 yet. An explosion occurred on "Glatton" at about 18.15 in the evening, followed by fierce burning amidships. As mentioned in the article the "Lady Brassey" went alongside to try and extinguish the fire, other boats assisting. The fire in the midship 6-inch magazine was out of control, as seen by Keyes and Commander Diggle when they boarded via the "Lady Brassey". Keyes and Diggle, working from the forecastle were able to get the forward magazines flooded but the fire blocked the way to the aft flooding controls located on the main deck. The seacocks for the rear of the ship were also unreachable. Keyes' options were governed by the fact that the ammunition ship "Gransha" lay in the next berth 150 yards away. He boarded the destroyer "Cossack" and had her fire an 18-inch torpedo in "Glatton", which as Bob Henneman mentioned failed to fire due to the safety mechanism - the distance being too close. At 19.40 "Cossack" tried again, and blew a hole in the starboard bulge. This was inadequate and Keyes then boarded "Myngs", which at 20.15 delivered two torpedoes into "Glatton's" side and keeled over to starboard, almost turtle at 148° to the vertical. Ian Buxton, whose excellent "Big Gun Monitors" I am quoting, gives the casualty list at; 1 Officer and 59 men missing. 124 injured of whom 19 died on injuries. A total of 79 dead. "Glatton" lay in Dover Harbour for so long because the Admiralty apparently did not have the salvage equipment to do the job. Every salvage firm it tried either refused or quoted an extortionate sum. Eventually Captain John Iron, the Dover Harbourmaster offered to do the job and work commenced in May, 1925 and the ship was raised in March, 1926. The hulk was then beached at the north-eastern end of the harbour and demolition completed in 1927. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 4 February , 2008 Share Posted 4 February , 2008 If anyone wants a photo of the Glatton's memorial in Woodlands Cemetery, Gillingham just email me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geoff501 Posted 4 February , 2008 Share Posted 4 February , 2008 No, Martin. When I searched on Glatton at the time I wrote post #2, I got 98 returns — now, like you, I get only 73. No idea why, I'm afraid — on both occasions I entered the single search term Glatton in the 'unit text' box. Mick, On the weekend 5/6 January I had to upgrade the search engine server memory since it was running low. Two of the search engine index files did not successfully ftp copy (stopped somewhere in 'S'). This would explain the low result given between that time and when this error was corrected a few days ago. cheers, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 4 February , 2008 Share Posted 4 February , 2008 Many thanks, Geoff - back to 98 now. Your extraordinarily wonderful search engine is brilliant for exploring the enormous mass of the Army, but when it comes to ships, it's unparalleled. I just searched the name of a tiny armed fishing smack and found all the members of her crew. It's apparent from another thread on war grave photography projects that CWGC is now willing to partner with specialists who can add value to their database, and I think the time has surely come to invite them to host your engine on their servers. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melliget Posted 4 February , 2008 Share Posted 4 February , 2008 Thanks, Geoff. I found the four I was missing. For the record, the total casualties for HMS Glatton were 98, not the 80 quoted in The Times. Here's the consolidated list. Unless noted otherwise, casualties listed below are RN, date of death 16/09/1918 and final resting place the Gillingham (Woodlands) Cemetery. ALFORD, ALFRED, Petty Officer Stoker ALLANTON, GEORGE, Ordinary Seaman AMES, WILLIAM, Stoker 1st Class ANDREWS, F. W. (Frederick William), Master at Arms, d.03/10/1918, GOSPORT (ANN'S HILL) CEMETERY AYLING, H. F., Petty Officer Stoker, d.25/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (KINGSTON) CEMETERY BAKER, ALBERT, Stoker 1st Class BALCOMBE, JAMES, Chief Gunner, d.18/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (MILTON) CEMETERY BARLOW, BERTRAM, Able Seaman BEATTY, ALFRED, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class BELL, NORMAN, Stoker 2nd Class, d.27/09/1918, HORDEN (THORPE ROAD) CEMETERY BELLAMY, J., Private (R.M.L.I.), d.17/09/1918, LEYTONSTONE (ST. PATRICK'S) ROMAN CATHOLIC CEMETERY BENNETT, WILLIAM STEPHEN, Stoker 1st Class BENSON, JOHN WILLIAM, Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class BOYLAND, CHARLES, Private, Royal Marine Light Infantry, d.02/10/1918, HEMYOCK CEMETERY BRIDGE, THOMAS, Stoker 1st Class BROWN, WILLIAM THOMAS, Able Seaman, d.21/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY CARD, WALTER ALBERT, Stoker 1st Class CAVE, HENRY, Petty Officer Stoker CLIFTON, ROBERT, Ordinary Seaman COPP, WILLIAM JACOB, Petty Officer COSTELLO (aka SNOWBALL), ROBERT, Stoker 2nd Class, d.17/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY COWDREY, CHARLES, Chief Engine Room Artificer CURT, ALBERT, Ordinary Seaman DICKSON, THOMAS, Stoker 1st Class DREW, REGINALD JAMES BLAKENEY, Lieut-Commander GATENBY, JOHN WILLIAM, Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, FULFORD CEMETERY GENEE (aka GENCE), RAPHAEL AUGUSTE, Petty Officer Stoker GILLIVER, JAMES, Private (R.M.L.I.), d.16/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY GLOVER, MAURICE JOHN, Warrant Schoolmaster, d.22/09/1918, DARESBURY (ALL SAINTS) CHURCHYARD GREENWOOD, RALPH DUKE, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class GROVE, WILLIAM GEORGE, Stoker 1st Class GRUNDY, L. E. F., Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, BOURNEMOUTH EAST CEMETERY HARDEN, PERCIVAL JACK ROBERTS, Ordinary Seaman HARDEN, WILLIAM FREDERICK, Able Seaman, RNVR HARFIELD, A. H., Leading Stoker, d.18/09/1918, HOOK (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD HEATH, CHARLES BENJAMIN, Stoker 1st Class HENSHAW, ALBERT HAROLD, Cook's Mate, d.19/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (MILTON) CEMETERY HILL, ALFRED HERBERT, Officer's Cook 1st Class HOWARD, CHARLES, Stoker 1st Class JOHNS, RICHARD, Private (R.M.L.I.), d.21/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (EASTNEY OR HIGHLAND ROAD) CEMETERY JOHNSON, ALFRED JOSEPH, Stoker 1st Class JONES, WILLIAM TREVOR, Stoker 1st Class KING, H. G., Cook's Mate, d.21/09/1918, WELLS CEMETERY KING, SAMUEL ARTHUR, Able Seaman, d.19/09/1918, MERTON (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD KNAPP, EDWIN, Stoker 1st Class KNIGHT, ROBERT, Stoker 1st Class LACKEY, JOSEPH THOMAS, Stoker 1st Class, d.21/09/1918, CAMBERWELL OLD CEMETERY LAKE, WALTER, Petty Officer LLOYD, EDWARD JOHN, Leading Signalman, d.29/09/1918, BANDON HILL CEMETERY LOCKIE, THOMAS CORBETT, Engineer Lieutenant, d.07/10/1918, PEEBLES CEMETERY MACKIE, THOMAS BREBNER, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class MAKIN, CHARLES THOMAS, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class MARTIN, A. K. (Arthur Kenneth), Officer's Cook 1st Class, d.21/09/1918, GOSPORT (ANN'S HILL) CEMETERY MARTIN, PETER, Petty Officer MCCLAY, DAVID SUGDEN, Able Seaman, d.21/09/1918, BRADFORD (UNDERCLIFFE) CEMETERY MILLER, FREDERICK JOHN, Stoker 1st Class MILLS, THOMAS RICHARD, Stoker 1st Class MOGER, CHARLES WILLIAM, Private, R.M.L.I. MOTTRAM, ALFRED HENRY, Leading Stoker NELSON, W. H., Boy 1st Class, d.17/09/1918, DEAL CEMETERY NETTLESHIP, WILLIAM, Stoker 2nd Class ODDY, J. H. (John Haralio), Leading Cooks Mate, d.25/09/1918, PORTSMOUTH (KINGSTON) CEMETERY OWEN, GEORGE ARTHUR, Chief Petty Officer POPE, CHARLES, Leading Stoker, d.19/09/1918, HENDON CEMETERY RHODES, FRANK, Shipwright 2nd Class ROBSON, GEORGE COLLINGWOOD, Stoker 1st Class ROWE, R. W., Stoker 2nd Class, d.17/09/1918, DALTON-LE-DALE (HOLY TRINITY) CHURCHYARD SAVE, G. A., Carpenter's Crew, d.17/09/1918, FULHAM PALACE ROAD CEMETERY SCORER, THOMAS, Stoker 2nd Class SHADWELL, FREDERICK WILLIAM, Engine Room Artificer 3rd Class SHAW, ALFRED BERNARD, 3rd Class Waiter SIMPSON, FREDERICK WALTER, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class SMALL, MARTIN, Stoker 2nd Class SMITH, THOMPSON, Stoker 2nd Class SOLLERS, PERCY, Engine Room Artificer 4th Class, d.17/09/1918, LLANTILIO PERTHOLEY (ST. TEILO) CHURCHYARD SPENCE, JOSEPH, Able Seaman, d.17/09/1918, DOVER (ST. JAMES'S) CEMETERY SPOONER, ALBERT HENRY, Able Seaman, d.26/09/1918, FUNTINGTON (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD STAMP, TOM, Petty Officer Stoker STARKEY, CHARLIE AGUSTA, Petty Officer Stoker STENSON, WALTER, Stoker 1st Class STOKER, J., Stoker 1st Class, d.25/09/1918, SUNDERLAND (MERE KNOLLS) CEMETERY STUBBS, GEORGE, Stoker 2nd Class SULLIVAN, MICHAEL, Shipwright 2nd Class TAYLOR, GEORGE HENRY, Stoker 1st Class VASS, A. S., Able Seaman, d.18/09/1918, FLEET (ALL SAINTS) CHURCHYARD VAUGHAN, C. H., Plumber's Mate, d.28/09/1918, WREXHAM CEMETERY WARWICK, L. C., Signal Boy, d.19/09/1918, BOURNEMOUTH EAST CEMETERY WAUGH, MATTHEW, Stoker 2nd Class WEIR, ROBERT, Able Seaman, d.16/09/1918, DALZIEL (AIRBLES) CEMETERY WELLS, R., Leading Stoker, d.23/09/1918, EFFINGHAM (ST. LAURENCE) CHURCHYARD WHITE, R. G. (Robert George), Leading Stoker, d.17/09/1918, GOSPORT (ANN'S HILL) CEMETERY WHITINGTON, JOHN JAMES, Boy Servant WILDING, STANLEY EDGENTON, Signalman, RNVR, d.21/09/1918, CITY OF LONDON CEMETERY AND CREMATORIUM, MANOR PARK WILKINSON, ERNEST WALTER, Stoker 1st Class, d.27/09/1918, FARNHAM (UPPER HALE) CEMETERY WILLS, JOHN, Stoker 2nd Class WINSTONE, ALBERT EDWARD, Boy 1st Class, d.17/09/1918, BECKENHAM CREMATORIUM AND CEMETERY WRAY, ROBERT MCGREGOR, Leading Stoker YEWMAN, ALEXANDER, Able Seaman, d.17.09/1918, CITY OF LONDON AND TOWER HAMLETS CEMETERY regards, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 5 February , 2008 Share Posted 5 February , 2008 My apologies for only just finding this thread. Admiralty death records show a total of 98 casualties, including 39 that died later from wounds, and that 2 men served under aliases. If anyone wants a copy to compare with Martin's send me an email address, because Excel files will not go thro' the forum mail system. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skynner Posted 5 February , 2008 Share Posted 5 February , 2008 For the record a old friend of mine has the wooden wheel from Glatton at his home in Crowborough. 6 foot across in great condition. His father who ran a resturant in Folkestone in the 50's and bought it there from a antique shop. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonharley Posted 7 February , 2008 Share Posted 7 February , 2008 That would be an exceptional piece of history to own. Harley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kyn Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 Hi, i thought i would join and add a picture of the memorial. Was there a reason the casualties were sent to Gillingham? I would have assumed they would have been buried in Dover! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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