Books on Battle of Verdun - Recommendations?

[nigelcave]

I think it is also worth bearing in mind that Horne's Price of Glory was one of a trilogy, the others on the Franco Prussian War and 1940. Horne wrote wonderfully well, I mean really well. They give a relatively easy start off point into looking at the French military-political experience of some hundred years and I would recommend reading all three to one and all.

[phil andrade]

Flawes, obselescence and factual innaccuracies notwithstanding, Horne's Price of Glory will reach out and grab you by the throat like no other book on this topic.

I experimented by buying two French books on the battle : Verdun 1916 by Jacques Pericard, and Combattre a Verdun by Gerard Canini. Relying on my O Level French, I'm able to enjoy both these works : they tend to be personal reminiscences, though, and do not provide the narrative accounts that I hanker for. In fact, too much French Great War history seems to be of this kind. I wonder why.

Phil

[Christina Holstein]

Hi Phil,

I think that's because French academics are not trained to write history as narrative. Indeed, I have the feeling that many of them would regards narrative history as somehow inferior. I recently bought a very interesting history about the Automobile Service of the French Army and its motorization which is written by a chap I've heard speaking a couple of times. He's a really brilliant speaker - the type who can talk for an hour without a single note, make it fascinating and answer every possible question - but the book is a couple of hundred pages of single space small print. Now one might say that it's impossible to do it differently if you're writing about the motorization of an army during WWI but I have a lot of books like that on all sorts of subjects and it seems to be the way it 'has' to be done.

Pity, really. There's lots of good stuff out there if only someone would write it.

I suspect that Pericard and Henri Lefebvre, who produced a similar book of individual experiences of the Battle of Verdun, wanted to make sure that the individual experience was not forgotten and that the generals who wrote about 'their' battle didn't have it all their own way. It's a great pity that Pericard and Lefebvre were never translated back in the 30s when they first appeared. I can't see anyone paying to do it now.

Regards,

Christina

[phil andrade]

French academics are not trained to write history as narrative. Indeed, I have the feeling that many of them would regards narrative history as somehow inferior.

Oh dear ! Doesn't that wind you up a wee bit, Christina ?

We need to know what happened, and when.

Phil

[Christina Holstein]

That is just my own supposition. I wonder sometimes if the prevailing view among French historians is that a book is not 'academic' if it's a narrative. Maybe it's peer pressure.

My son aged 26, who has a degree in history with military history, is slightly scornful of narrative history. They seem to have been taught that analytical history is the only way to write. I don't see that one excludes the other and I consider that it is possible to write a narrative that includes analysis but he doesn't agree.

It doesn't wind me up but I think it's a missed opportunity. There are lots of people out there who would love to read well written history but don't get on with the 300-pages-of-dense-type-with-almost-no-paragraph-breaks sort of stuff. There is room for both types.

Christina

[phil andrade]

My son aged 26, who has a degree in history with military history, is slightly scornful of narrative history. Christina

Christina

A dozen years ago, my older daughter distinguished herself by achieving the best A level history mark in her school. Her principal subject was Latin, and she went on to read Classics at Cambridge, where she attained a double First....forgive the proud Dad bit !

What appalled me was the fact that, although she was conversant with accounts of Stalinism and the social history of the Third Reich, when I asked her when the Second World War was fought, she didn't know !

Phil

[truthergw]

That is just my own supposition. I wonder sometimes if the prevailing view among French historians is that a book is not 'academic' if it's a narrative. Maybe it's peer pressure.

My son aged 26, who has a degree in history with military history, is slightly scornful of narrative history. They seem to have been taught that analytical history is the only way to write. I don't see that one excludes the other and I consider that it is possible to write a narrative that includes analysis but he doesn't agree.

It doesn't wind me up but I think it's a missed opportunity. There are lots of people out there who would love to read well written history but don't get on with the 300-pages-of-dense-type-with-almost-no-paragraph-breaks sort of stuff. There is room for both types.

Christina

Unfortunately, there are fashions in academe and these are reflected in the sort of books which academic publishers are looking for and the papers which professional journals will accept. Any professional who bucks the trend, has to have an extremely powerful argument against current thinking or risk being branded a maverick. That apart,a historian who adopts a narrative approach may well risk being written off by her/his ' serious' peers. It may be that the choice must be made between being thought of as an historian or as an author. Combining the two successfully, is a rare gift and anyone who is not confident of possessing that gift is probably wise to choose the path that appeals best. I'd like to ask Richard Holmes if his colleagues' attitudes changed when he branched out into popular books and TV programs. I suspect they did.

[Paul Hederer]

Unfortunately, there are fashions in academe and these are reflected in the sort of books which academic publishers are looking for and the papers which professional journals will accept. Any professional who bucks the trend, has to have an extremely powerful argument against current thinking or risk being branded a maverick. That apart,a historian who adopts a narrative approach may well risk being written off by her/his ' serious' peers. It may be that the choice must be made between being thought of as an historian or as an author. Combining the two successfully, is a rare gift and anyone who is not confident of possessing that gift is probably wise to choose the path that appeals best. I'd like to ask Richard Holmes if his colleagues' attitudes changed when he branched out into popular books and TV programs. I suspect they did.

Interesting discussion--I've not seen any prejudice against the narrative method--each has its place. I'm using a narrative framework for my analysis. I think I may be lucky in my supervisor.

Paul

[Christina Holstein]

Hi Paul,

That's interesting. Perhaps ideas are changing in the UK. My son was at Kings College London and graduated five years ago.

Christina

[Paul Hederer]

Hi Paul,

That's interesting. Perhaps ideas are changing in the UK. My son was at Kings College London and graduated five years ago.

Christina

Hello Christina,

It sure could be, I'll be meeting up with my advisor tomorrow and I'll ask the question. There does seem to be a difference in UK and US methods and attitudes, but I am defintely no expert on this, and wouldn't to speak to it as if I were...

I did notice that the one seminar I attended that there are certainly a variety of manners in delivering material. That was an interesting experience which relates to what's being discussed here.

There's certainly no taboo on making material interesting, and developing your "narrative spine," is something to be strived for in a thesis. It can take a variety of forms. Perhaps a narrative chapter to put the analysis in context. This gives an unbroken sense of the events, and allows a thematic discussion that is concentrated (oh my that sounds wordy). That's what I'm attempting to do.

Paul

[Kate Wills]

Has anyone caught sight of Mosier's latest book, on Verdun? It claims to be 'the lost history of the most important battle of WW1'

Any book with 'lost' in the title usually sets me to ignore mode.

[nigelcave]

Has anyone caught sight of Mosier's latest book, on Verdun? It claims to be 'the lost history of the most important battle of WW1'

Any book with 'lost' in the title usually sets me to ignore mode.

Oh good grief! I am still recovering from his complaint that the British called a battle Mons and the French called it Guise: now apart from a different date, differently led opposition, a small matter of fifty or sixty miles apart - I mean of course they should have called Guise Mons, or even vice versa! And then there was the interesting British offensive on Aubersville Ridge, which seem to have escaped the notice of the Official Historian and all the regimental historians and even the French IGN; and the pearl that maps are not to be trusted (I can see where he is coming from on that one, since his map with Aubersville on it is patently not to be trusted..). Oh dear; I shall lie down and contemplate the four last things.

[Gibbo]

I imagine what has been 'lost' is a true understanding of the battle, which Mosier possesses, but everybody else has missed.

I've been awarded a PhD by a UK university in the 3 1/2 years since Paul's post. It had a narrative structure, with the analysis being woven into the narrative. This seems to be common in British political or military history PhDs, although my supervisor did suggest the option of alternating narrative and analytical chapters.

[David Filsell]

Good to see this thread brought back to life and to re-read it. The Forum at is helpful and knowledgeable best

[mmckay395]

For what it's worth, I'd say for understanding the Battle of Verdun you can't go far wrong with Foley's German Strategy and the Path to Verdun. If you get past the first couple of chapters then it's really eye-opening. Plus, there is much reference to Afflerbach's biography of Falkenhayn so it's probably the closest English speakers will get to understanding his intentions and the 'Christmas memorandum'.

Other than that Christina Holstein has written top books in the Battleground Europe series.