RodB Posted 30 January , 2004 Share Posted 30 January , 2004 Folks, I'm trying to do some research into my grandfather's WWI exploits i.e. where he was, what he did. I know the following :- He was from Manchester, served in a Territorial 18 pdr RFA battery as Sergeant. I heard that he served in the Middle East, Ypres, and the final push. I never heard it mentioned that he served at Gallipoli. He apparently served alongside the Lancashire Fusiliers. I think the Division must have been 42nd (East Lancs). Attached RFA Field Gun Brigades were CCX, CCXI, CCXII. Apparently CCX and CCXII were from Blackburn, Church, Burnley, Bolton (i.e. not Manchester), and went to Gallipoli. Which leaves CCXI, which apparently did not go to Gallipoli. I do not not know where it was raised. CCXI was apparently renumbered CCXII then broken up in FEb 1917, batteries being redistributed to CCX and CCXI (a different CCXI !). From then on I understand RFA batteries were under Corps or Army command, rather than Division, and hence his movements would not necessarily have followed the Division. So... how can I confirm that he served with one of these Brigades, and from there get hold of the Brigade diary if there is such a thing ? I've found it frustrating reading histories where battalions and divisions have minutely detailed references, then there's a mention of a barrage firing a million shells, but never any reference to the artillery units that fired them. I'm in Australia so I can't get to the records offices. Any help greatfully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 30 January , 2004 Share Posted 30 January , 2004 Do you know your grandfather's regimental number? If he was part of the Territorial Force and you can give us his six digit regimental number his brigade can probably be identified. Regards. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodB Posted 30 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 30 January , 2004 Thanks Dick, I don't have his number. I know he was decorated in the final push... is there somebody I can write to who will give me his number based on that ? What about service record ? Are there privacy restrictions ? thanks, Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 30 January , 2004 Share Posted 30 January , 2004 Rod, What was his name? If he was decorated, i.e. DCM, MM, etc. then that may be a way to find out more. Post his name here and see if that draws any further suggestions. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 30 January , 2004 Share Posted 30 January , 2004 Rod, go and click on The Long, Long Trail (top-left of this page). Then read "Grandad's war", and you'll know how to go about researching him in more depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodB Posted 1 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 1 February , 2004 Rod, go and click on The Long, Long Trail (top-left of this page). Then read "Grandad's war", and you'll know how to go about researching him in more depth. Chris, basically that seems to say that somebody has to get to the PRO at Kew in person, to access the medal rolls and regimental diaries. Am I correct ? I'm in Australia and can't do that. However... My grandfather was Sergeant Charles Alfred Butcher, RFA, and he won the DCM in the final weeks of the war. So, he should be mentioned in "Recipients of the Distinguished Conduct Medal 1914-1920" by R. W. Walker, published 1980. Anybody got access to a copy ? Or anybody know of another source of info about medal rolls, apart from Kew ? many thanks, Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 1 February , 2004 Share Posted 1 February , 2004 My grandfather was Sergeant Charles Alfred Butcher, RFA, and he won the DCM in the final weeks of the war. This is the closest I can get to the name you give. Does it appear to be the correct one? 705195 Sjt. A. Butcher, C/211th (E. Lancs) Bde, RFA, TF (Manchester) London Gazette 11 Mar 20 For consistent gallantry and devotion to duty during the recent operations, particularly from 17th September to 11th November 1918. He has at all times and under the most trying conditions shown great fearlessness and skill in handling his sub-section. His courage, cheerfulness and endurance under heavy enemy fire have been admirable. Regards. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodB Posted 2 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 2 February , 2004 A million thanks Dick, that's him. Did that come out of the book ? Looks like he was with the same brigade (CCXI) throughout the war, so my next challenge is to get hold of its war diary. Any other sources apart from Kew ? thanks again Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 2 February , 2004 Share Posted 2 February , 2004 A million thanks Dick, that's him. Did that come out of the book ? Looks like he was with the same brigade (CCXI) throughout the war, so my next challenge is to get hold of its war diary. Any other sources apart from Kew ? That information comes from a book entitled: "The Distinguished Conduct Medal 1914-1920, Royal Artillery." If I am not mistaken CCXI Brigade is the "Bolton Artillery" and I have a unit history of that brigade somewhere in my library. I am knee-deep in getting the March/April issue of JOMSA to the proof readers at the moment, but as soon as I get a little time I will see if I can find any mention of him. Regards. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 3 February , 2004 Share Posted 3 February , 2004 Rod: I checked the two books I have on 211th Brigade (Bolton Artillery) and they have nothing more on A. Butcher except listing him as a recipient of the DCM. I can though give you the locations of the Brigade during the dates mentioned in his DCM citation, 17 September to 11 November 1918: 16 Sept 18: Brigade moved to the north of Bertincourt 26 Sept 18: Brigade came into action in Haveringcourt Wood, occupying the same positions which it had occupied in May, 1917. 28 Sept 18: The brigade advanced to Boar Copse, SE of Trescault, afterwards taking up positions to the south of Ribecourt. 30 Sept 18: Brigade advanced to the north of La Vacquerie. 24 Oct 18: 211 Brigade went into action at Pont St. Pierre. 26 Oct 18: Brigade withdrew from the line about two miles 31 Oct 18: It took over the positions of the 210th Brigade, RFA in the line at Beaudignies. 4 Nov 18: Brigade took up battle positions to the east of Beaudignies and opened with a barrage at 0530. 7 Nov 18: Brigade was at Haute Rue, two miles south of Le Quesnoy. 8-9 Nov 18: Brigade advanced through the Foret de Mormal and took up positions to the east of Hautmont, a march of about 15 miles. Sources: Lt-Col B. Palin Dobson, "History of the Bolton Artillery 1860-1928"; A J Wingfield, "The Bolton Artillery, A History, 1860-1975." Regards. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 3 February , 2004 Share Posted 3 February , 2004 somebody has to get to the PRO at Kew in person, to access the medal rolls and regimental diaries. Am I correct ? That's the only way, unless the unit has a published history, or the individual is mentioned somewhere (as in the DCM example here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Treefire Posted 10 March , 2004 Share Posted 10 March , 2004 Rod I don't know if I can help you in any way but I will try. The 'Bolton Artillery' is still in existence, as the '216 (The Bolton Artillery) Battery Royal Artillery (Volunteers), which is part of the '103 (Lancashire Artillery) Regiment Royal Artillery (Volunteers)'. http://www.army.mod.uk/103regtrav/index.htm I am a serving member of this unit and have direct access to the unit museum I will pass on your Grandfathers details to the museum staff and see if they can find out anymore details. The Museum is at: The Bolton Artillery Association Museum 216 (The Bolton Artillery) Royal Artillery (Volunteers) The Bolton Artillery Barracks Nelson Street BOLTON Lancashire BL3 3RW United Kingdom Tel: +44(0)1204 362111 Tuesdays 19.30 - 21.00 local tome hope this helps and they can get you the information you are looking for. Regards Dave Ashburner sigssgt@216bty.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorts Posted 11 March , 2004 Share Posted 11 March , 2004 Dick, Does the DCM to the RA book list a Edmund James Hayhoe? I have the details from the LG and other sources but I would be interested if you book could narrow down the unit any further than 'TMB'. Rgds, Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 11 March , 2004 Share Posted 11 March , 2004 Unfortunately the DCM book only lists Hayhoe as "R. F. A.". Regards. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorts Posted 13 March , 2004 Share Posted 13 March , 2004 Hi, Thanks for looking Dick, Rgds, Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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