Goodbye to all that

[Muerrisch]

Thank you: its the photos that really bring these men to life: the Editor is very keen on illustrations which makes for a cracking ST! every 4 months.

[connaughtranger]

Graves also slagged off other battalions, like the 16th Middx whom he accused of cowardice in High Wood at a time when they weren't there

[truthergw]

He had a right old go at the Highland regiments too. I tend to think that he was pointing up the prejudices and snobbery which existed in a Regular Army, officer's mess. Graves was saddled with the opinions which he gave his characters. This was his own fault, to some extent, for writing the book as a biography rather than as a ' novel' as Sassoon did.

[1st east yorks]

Hello,

As i said in my original post the old veteran who dispised Graves was a Middlesex battalion lad.

Anthony.

[Tunesmith]

Graves even had a go at a battalion of his own regiment in GTAT. Just as truthergw says, he did it when reporting the beliefs and opinions of the Regular officers:

'The territorials it (the 2

nd

RWF) never accepted, disowning then contemptuously as 'dog-shooters. The fact was that three of the four territorial battalions failed signally in the Suvla Bay landing at Gallipoli.

One battalion, it was known, had offered violence to its officers; the commanding officer, a regular, had not cared to survive that day. Even the good work that these battalions did later in

Palestine

could not cancel this disgrace'

.

I think this refers to the 1/5^th battalion, whose CO, Lt-Col B.E. Philips, was killed at Scimitar Hill on August 10^th (along with a good many other RWF men).

So was this story true – that men of the 1/5^th 'offered violence' to their officers and that Lt-Col Philips 'had not cared to survive'?

Maybe Graves didn't actually know if it was true or not. But he very cleverly gave himself a get-out by including the phrase 'it was known'. The reader can take this ironically, ie 'we all fell for the widespread rumour that..' But it can equally be taken literally ie. 'we were officially told that…'

If the story of the 1/5^th was accurate then fair enough, one can accuse Graves of, at worst, indiscretion and perhaps regimental disloyalty. So far I've found no hard evidence to support the story.

If it was inaccurate then I think Graves is morally on dodgy ground. He could and should have made clear it was false rumour. One clue that he had a bad conscience about it can be seen first in the fact that in 1957 he slightly revised this passage, along with many others:

'One battalion, it became known, had offered violence to its officers; the commanding officer, a regular, had not cared to survive the disgrace, which even the good work that these battalions did later at Gaza could not cancel'

.

- and second that he ends his 1957 prologue with:

'If any passage still gives offence after all these years, I hope to be forgiven.'

Tunesmith

[henri]

Goodbye to all that is a great book to read.

it is a novell, fiction and i do think that it was never written or intended to be historical correct.

henri

[Muerrisch]

Graves came to be extremely proud of his regiment, and wrote several letters to that effect.

[Moriaty]

On 10th August the 5th, 6th and 7th RWF rushed Scimitar Hill, within five minutes of taking the hill Lieut Colonel Philips of the 5th was hit in the neck and died instantly as Major Borthwick wrote “hit in the neck. His death was instantaneous, he did not move nor did he even say a word, his head just fell forward and he was dead.” He is buried in Green Hill cemetery. I believe he was mentioned in dispatches.

Moriaty