Haig's Diary (Manuscript or Typed)

[Tom A McCluskey]

Hi All,

Please, does anyone have access to Haig's Diary (Manuscript or Typed versions). I have the book: War Diaries and Letters, 1914-1918 edited by Gary Sheffield & John Bourne. Unfortunately, two of their ommissions, for whatever reason, are Haig's diary entries to two key dates in my research.

1. One is the capture of the Schwaben Redoubt on the 14th October 1916.

2. The other is the capture of Beaucourt and Beaumont Hamel on the 13th of November 1916.

As many are aware these stronghold areas caused many casualties and difficulties to the British Army (Commonwealth & RND included), and it would be interesting to find out Douglas Haig's reaction to these events; so if anyone could please provide this information it would be much appreciated.

Aye

Tom McC

[George Armstrong Custer]

What's your research into, Tom? If no-one has copies of the entries for the dates you want (and you may well want to look at those for 15 October and 14 November as well), you can consult the originals yourself at the National Library of Scotland - only a 50 minute drive for you!

Regards,

George

[Tom A McCluskey]

George,

Try about a 7 hour drive at the moment .

I need the Schwaben for the 39th Division and Beaucourt/Beaumont Hamel for the Royal Naval Division/51st (Highland) Division.

Aye

Tom McC

[George Armstrong Custer]

George,

Try about a 7 hour drive at the moment .

Ah - a bit of a bu****ance, that! If no-one comes up with copies here then I may very well be in Edinburgh myself towards the end of next week and can take a look. If that's not too late for you let me know and I'll do the needful!

Regards,

George

[Tom A McCluskey]

George,

Please don't go out of your way. I thought that someone might have the notes as DH is very topical at the moment.

It is one that can sit on the 'back-burner' for a while.

Aye

Tom McC

[George Armstrong Custer]

No problem, Tom - if I'm there anyway I'll look.

Regards,

George

[Tom A McCluskey]

Cheers George

Aye

Tom McC

[George Armstrong Custer]

Was finally able to get your two requested Haig diary entries which are not reproduced in Sheffield & Bourne from Edinburgh, Tom. These are from the manuscript diary, with alterations from the typed version given in [ ]. As you can see, the typed alterations amount to little more than grammatical additions for the sake of clarity and do not alter the content of the original:

Sunday 15 Oct:

Glass fell 4 tenths from midday y’day until 5a.m. – it then rose slightly. Fine day – mild morning cold evening. Air observation fair: some good work done y’day 25th Divn. with one company took the remaining part of Stuff redoubt and over 100 prisoners. The 39th Div. took nearly all the hill top North of Schwaben redoubt [and also instead of with] with 1 officer 203 other ranks prisoners. [The Battn. Instead of 1] 1 Cambridgeshire regt. specially distinguished themselves. Two very useful operations, as we now have all the Thiepval hill top, and the “observation” beyond i.e. up the Ancre Valley.

I attended the Church of Scotland at Beauquesne at 9.30 a.m. – Mr Duncan preached from St. John “my peace I leave with you – my peace I give unto you” – He spoke of life in general, how it is made up of anxieties and worries – and yet through it all, if we only have acquired certain qualities, we shall have that “peace”. The war has educated many of us so that we have found the “peace” of mind. Few [indeed] of us, before the danger, the anxieties and hardships of this war had been felt, had any idea of what that “peace” really means.

Gen. Foch came to see me after lunch. He told me of F. M. French’s visit yesterday. He seemed to be mostly interested in airoplanes [sic] & artillery. But French had no artillery expert with him. Esher writes me from Paris that there is “a good deal of speculation in govt. circles as to the reason for F. M. French’s visit – Briand knew nothing about it and was not over pleased. I think he will rap Joffre over the knuckles. “

The object of Foch’s visit was to fix dates and agree about [future] plans. He had no change to propose and left fully satisfied regarding our combined action. He sees the necessity for doing as much as we possibly can to gain a big success before the wet weather sets in. Both [the general] feeling in France, and [the] state of Roumania demands decisive action at an early [date] –

Ammunition receipts are now much better – Autumn holidays seem recently to have reduced them –

18 pr. 214,000 – 203,000 were expended

4.5 hows. 53 rounds a gun (744 guns)

6 in hows. 61 “ “ “ (268 “ )

8 in hows. 62 “ “ “ (104 “ )

In afternoon I rode to Toutencourt and saw Gen. Gough. I pointed out to him the need for getting out his plans for the new operation as soon as possible. He thought it wd. take him about a week to get ready.

Valvion

Tuesday 14 Nov.

The glass is high and steady. Morning foggy but less misty in afternoon.

Fifth Army confirms possession of the village of Beaucourt sur Ancre. Today [our] operations are [being continued instead of going on] going on with the object of capturing the whole ridge which runs up to our front S.W. of Serre.

I left about 11 a.m. for Paris and called at Querrieu on the way. I saw Sir H. Rawlinson. The III Corps attacked this morning at 6 a.m. with a few Battalions to get the top of the spur E of the Butte de Warlencourt. Nearly all objectives were gained and 80 prisoners were taken.

I spoke to Rawlinson re taking over from the French at Morval & Sailly Saillisel : the relief to commence about 1st Decr. – Also regarding the system of Defence of our front S. of the Ancre. I directed that the ridge [not underlined] was to be our main line of defence – The front [is] to be held with strong points and continuous trenches to [will instead of to] be gradually constructed. Intermediate villages between our front line & the main position to be organised as ‘strong point’ but the latter should be as invisible as possible and consist of m. gun emplacements to bring flanking fire on good obstacles. – The trenches are still very wet and in some units percentage of sick had increased. I [told Rawlinson instead of said] said no attempt to advance was to be made until all the communications & defensive positions were in a good state.

We left about 12.30 and reached Paris about 5 p.m. We lunched at the side of the road on the way and also walked for about an hour.

My party consists of Br. Gen. Davidson (of Gen. Staff), Col. Fletcher (senior A.D.C.), Sir P. Sassoon (Priv. Sec.) – We stay at the Hotel de Crillon (Place de la Concorde). The Prime Minister, S of S for War, and Sir W. Robertson arrive by special train soon after me.

After dinner I have a long talk with Sir W. Robertson – in order to win I say that our Battalions should be made up to full strength as soon as possible, and Divisions sh. each have 1800 over strength [not underlined] by 1st Feby. He said that this could & would be done. I referred to W. O. letter of 9th Nov. [which stated instead of stating] stating that up to end of Jany. only 124,000 drafts for British units would be sent for Nov. Dec. & Jany.

Paris

ciao,

George

[Tom A McCluskey]

George,

That is absolutely brilliant! Thanks very much for going to the trouble to look these dates up for me. I was surprised that these dates were omitted in the first place [from the the Sheffield/Bourne book] as they are fairly key events to anyone studying the Battle of the Somme. I can now write in a little GAC manuscript amendment into my copy

Aye

Tom McC

[Al Parsons]

My heavens to betsy, what does this mean? Silly me, I thought that the Sheffield/Bourne book would be comprehensive; ie. exclude nothing of importance. Should I now conclude that their book is a far cry from that? Please tell me "no".

[Robert Dunlop]

Nothing deemed of importance to the Eds

Robert

[armourersergeant]

The editors took it in turn to do a year and I can not remember who did what year, though it was in turn. If I had to guess I seem to recall Gary Sheffield talking about 1914, which means he would have done 1916. I guess they had to edit some or the book would have been massive?

regards

Arm

[Tom A McCluskey]

Arm,

That is true, but I reckon a 2 volume set would have sold too (maybe not as many). I for one, probably along with others on the forum, would be prepared to pay the extra amount for a more comprehensive edition. There are probably a few others on the forum that feel that key or landmark dates have been omitted that are connected to areas of their study. I would have thought that the capture of the Schwaben and of Beaucourt/Beaumont Hamel would have been covered, these areas having been a source of such dogged resistance/fighting and not taken cheaply. However, this is just a personal view of these two dates and I hope this does not detract from the information that the book does provide.

Aye

Tom McC

[armourersergeant]

Tom,

I guess it may have been what either the publishers were willing to commission and what the editors had time to do. That said both entries do seem to be worthy of inclusion. i often think of Bmac's book and what the publishers wanted him to cut. The reduction would have ripped the heart out of the book if I recall, yet they were not prepared to publish the complete book as it stood.

regards

Arm

[PhilB]

The reports of battles seem to occupy quite a small proportion of the diary entries and I notice that both dates mention numbers of prisoners taken but not casualties suffered. Are these ongoing features of the diary? That would be understandable if this was a strictly personal diary outlining Haig`s thoughts & doings. Was this an "official" diary that he was duty bound to keep or purely personal?

[George Armstrong Custer]

Purely personal. Casualty figures were included in official returns.

ciao,

GAC

[PhilB]

Thanks. The C in C wasn`t obliged to keep an official diary? (Rather like the captain of a warship)

[George Armstrong Custer]

No. The nearest to an 'official' diary for Haig's daily activities would have been Haig's appointments diary kept by his private secretary, Philip Sassoon.

ciao,

GAC