The Greens Posted 13 February , 2008 Share Posted 13 February , 2008 Hope someone can help. I would like to add a picture of the cap badge of the Scots Guards to the diary I am doing of Charles Green. I have enclosed a copy of the picture of Charles Green in uniform with his cap on his knee. I found two possible badges which belong to the Scots Guards but which one would Charles have had WW1. My initial feeling was the lower one not the top one. Would be grateful if someone could clear this up for me. regards Sue New Zealand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 13 February , 2008 Share Posted 13 February , 2008 Lower one is Royal Scots, not Scots Guards, so the upper one. Having said that (I'm no expert) it looks as if it might be officer pattern. I'm sure other members will chip in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 13 February , 2008 Share Posted 13 February , 2008 Hello, I agree with Steven, it's the top badge that the Scots Guards wore. The lower badge is that of the Royal Scots which is a different regiment all together. I notice your Guardsman is wearing the ribbon of the 1914 Star and is also a Cpl. As a Cpl [corporal] I am fairly sure he would have worn a Bi metal capbadge. The NCO's Bi metal badge is not as fancy as the senior NCO's and Officers badge. It is not fretted and does not have any enameling. It's a great photo. Regards, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 February , 2008 Share Posted 13 February , 2008 Hello, I agree with Steven, it's the top badge that the Scots Guards wore. The lower badge is that of the Royal Scots which is a different regiment all together. I notice your Guardsman is wearing the ribbon of the 1914 Star and is also a Cpl. As a Cpl [corporal] I am fairly sure he would have worn a Bi metal capbadge. The NCO's Bi metal badge is not as fancy as the senior NCO's and Officers badge. It is not fretted and does not have any enameling. It's a great photo. Regards, Stewart Known in the regiment as Cap Stars (and not badges) I believe that ranks below Full Sergeant wore (and still wear) an all brass version. Full Sergeants, Colour Sergeants and Warrant Officers wear a bi-metal 'staff' version, although I am not sure when this practice started. He is wearing service chevrons on his lower right arm, a red one for 1914 and blue for each of the years 15-18, plus on his shoulder he has the distinctive 2 piece shoulder title of a nickel silver thistle surmounting the brass letters SG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greens Posted 13 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 13 February , 2008 Thank to you everyone for helping to clarify the two stars. The photo of the cap on Charles knee was just not clear enough even when enlarged to really prove which one. Charles was awarded the following medal. In a letter From the Imerial War Museum they state Charles received the the Mons Star medal which was awarded to all officers and men of the British and Indian forces who served with the establisment of their unit in France and Belgium between 5 Aug 1914 and midnight of 22.23 Nov 1914. A bar inscribed "5 Aug to 22 Nov. 1914 was given to all those who served under fire. Since the same ribbon is used with the 1914-15 star, holders of the Mons Star were permitted to wear a small silver rosette on their ribbon when the decoration itself is not worn. On the medal index cards held at the National Archives these additions are usually noted as the "Clasp and Roses". I assume the item hanging on his right is the Mons Star. Thank you all again for your quick replies and help. Regards Sue New Zealand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 13 February , 2008 Share Posted 13 February , 2008 The thing hanging from his right breast pocket isn't a Mons Star. It's some form of watch chain with a medallion of some description (might even be a miniature regimental badge - sweetheart-style thingy). Bit fancy for the sergeant major to see you with, but very nice for a posh photo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st east yorks Posted 13 February , 2008 Share Posted 13 February , 2008 Hello Sue, As Stewart said the guardsman is wearing the ribbon ONLY of the 1914 Star,you can see this just above his left pocket,its quite small.I agree its a great photo. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greens Posted 13 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 13 February , 2008 Hello Sue, As Stewart said the guardsman is wearing the ribbon ONLY of the 1914 Star,you can see this just above his left pocket,its quite small.I agree its a great photo. Anthony Hi Anthony, If that is the Mons ribbon then the photo was taken after the war which has helped clear that up. We were not sure if it was before or after the war. Steven's description of the decoration on the right side is interesting. Perhaps a bit of a joke on Charles part of some sort. We were very lucky that the original photo was in such good condition. It scanned up very well with just a little touching up here and there to do for the final print of the diary. This photo will be used for the front cover. Regards Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 14 February , 2008 Share Posted 14 February , 2008 Hi Anthony, If that is the Mons ribbon then the photo was taken after the war which has helped clear that up. We were not sure if it was before or after the war. Steven's description of the decoration on the right side is interesting. Perhaps a bit of a joke on Charles part of some sort. We were very lucky that the original photo was in such good condition. It scanned up very well with just a little touching up here and there to do for the final print of the diary. This photo will be used for the front cover. Regards Sue Sue, the service chevrons I mention in my last post also prove this to be after the war, as they show time served from 1914 (red) to 1918 ( four blue - 1915 to 18). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greens Posted 14 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2008 Sue, the service chevrons I mention in my last post also prove this to be after the war, as they show time served from 1914 (red) to 1918 ( four blue - 1915 to 18). Many thanks. I am on the last few parts of the diary so can add a little more info. with the help you have given. Regards Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluevanman Posted 14 February , 2008 Share Posted 14 February , 2008 Yes indeed the top cap badge is of the Scots Guards. 1642--1918 The Scots Guards badge depicts the star of the Order of the Thistle set upon the Saltire or St Andrews Cross,whose bars are separated by heraldic rays.Officers and Warrent officers wear silver badges while non-commissioned officers and Guardsmen wear brass badges and the insignia also appears on all uniform buttons.The motto of the Scots Guards is Nemo me impune lacessit,which translated from latin into English means "Touch me not with impunity" or more dramatically in Scots,"Wha daur meddle wi me"! The L/cpl in the photo looks like a very smart Guardsman indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greens Posted 14 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2008 Yes indeed the top cap badge is of the Scots Guards. 1642--1918 The Scots Guards badge depicts the star of the Order of the Thistle set upon the Saltire or St Andrews Cross,whose bars are separated by heraldic rays.Officers and Warrent officers wear silver badges while non-commissioned officers and Guardsmen wear brass badges and the insignia also appears on all uniform buttons.The motto of the Scots Guards is Nemo me impune lacessit,which translated from latin into English means "Touch me not with impunity" or more dramatically in Scots,"Wha daur meddle wi me"! The L/cpl in the photo looks like a very smart Guardsman indeed. Thank you so much for the information and help. All these little bits help to explain things to the reader of the diary. It's also nice to know I will have the correct info. Would hate to have it printed then find we have the wrong picture. As a genealogist I learnt a long time ago always check, check and check information out again. Thank you to everyone for your input and help. regards Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Hales Posted 15 February , 2008 Share Posted 15 February , 2008 His cap doesn't have a chequered band, anybody know if this was only for officers ? Owen Hales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 16 February , 2008 Share Posted 16 February , 2008 His cap doesn't have a chequered band, anybody know if this was only for officers ? Owen Hales chequered band only worn on best (No 1 dress) hat. Nothing worn on SD cap for ORs, but officers have a small square of Royal Stewart tartan above one of the chin strap buttons at the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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