Kilts withdrawn ?

[MACRAE]

Was there a point during the great war that the Scottish Kilted regiments was issued trousers. I have read that the kilts caused problems when soaking wet and some regiments was issued trousers instead any truth in this matter .

Dan

[truthergw]

Tom McCluskey will know the real answer but I believe the replacement of kilts with trousers was always an option for commanding officers. It became common when mustard gas was used. A kilt wearer was very exposed to ill effects since the liquid remained acive on soil for a long time. Just sitting on the ground days after an attack could result in burns. Trousers were commonly used on raids and night patrols.

[4thGordons]

We had quite an extensive discussion on this a few months ago but I'll be blowed if I can find it.

but the short answer was as above - extreme cold, local conditions or particular purposes (for example battalion transport - riders etc wore trousers) were all reasons for trousers being substituted. There is a short bit in the 1/4th Gordons diary where it is mentioned I will see if I can find it.

The persistent gas /blister agent idea was also mentioned (and makes sense to me) however I have never found documentation of this.

Chris

[4thGordons]

1/4th Gordons December 1916

3/12/1916 Still cold. 65 O/R reinforcements arrived last night. Men going to trenches all issued with trews and drawers. Leather jerkins were issued to Battn. Left Huts at 3pm by platoons changed into trews at POZIERS and thereafter marched to trenches relieving the 5th Gordons there. Relief completed safely by 9pm. The whole Battn in front line with exception of 1 platoon of D Coy in support on right of Battn sector. Good deal of shelling during relief Trenches very bad. Knee deep in mud and water in many places.

10/12/1916 Cold. Men changed into kilts and Battn marched off by Coy at 12.15pm to SENLIS arrived there about2 pm Billets fairly good Rest of the day spent cleaning.

It would appear in this case cold weather and trenches in bad condition were the reason. Also that the Bn were quick to change back to kilts as soon as they could!

This changing in and out is repeated several times when the Btn go into the trenches in this area in the winter of 1916-17 (in the area of Senlis, Bruce Huts, Wolfe Huts etc)

[truthergw]

When knee deep in water, a kilt might not have been too much of a handicap. Trouble would be when it got wet. It took a long time to dry. The deep pleats were a haven for lice. Alltogether a bad uniform for fighting in trenches and a bad mark against the people who insisted on the men wearing kilts in the trenches when they themselves were in neither. The Scottish equivalent of Col. Blimp at his worst.

[Joe Sweeney]

Dan,

The short answer is yes Kilts were withdrawn and replaced by SD trousers at some points in the war. Invariably this happened just about every fall after 1916 with Kilts returned in the spring.

The documentation for British units is not as comprehensive as that for Canadian so not sure if 100% of the BEF units had Kilts withdrawn but many references to the practice can be found in such works as the History of the 51st Highland Division.

For the Canadians the practice is very comprehensively recorded in the Canadian Corps ADOS war diaries.

Every single Kilt was widrawn from the Kilted Battalions in the fall of 1916 and 1917 and reissued in the springs of 1917 and 1918. They were sent to Paris depot for cleaning and storage. The sole reason given was weather and not gas related for the Canadians.

This practice is not very well know nor is the practice of issuing underdrawers to Scottish Kilted units in the winter either.

Joe Sweeney

[rgalley]

Hi Dan,

The previous discussion that I think Chris (4th Gordons) was referring to earlier can be found under the title "Use of 'drab' kilts" (I've tried to provide a link but can't make it work ... do a search of the words and you'll find it, no trouble). Worth looking as there's useful stuff to be found in this thread.

Worth noting also that kilts and tam o'shanters were withdrawn on at least one occasion from certain kilted units of the 51st Highland Division when they went into the line, in order to try and mislead enemy intelligence about the identity of the troops facing them in that particular sector.

[rgalley]

When knee deep in water, a kilt might not have been too much of a handicap. Trouble would be when it got wet. It took a long time to dry. The deep pleats were a haven for lice. Alltogether a bad uniform for fighting in trenches and a bad mark against the people who insisted on the men wearing kilts in the trenches when they themselves were in neither. The Scottish equivalent of Col. Blimp at his worst.

Hi Tom,

Many of the accounts I've read favour the kilt, despite its faults. The main problems it seems to have presented were chaffing at the back of the knees when soaked and then frozen (the kilt that is, not the knees!); difficulty in keeping the exposed knees warm when trying to sleep at night and lack of protection for the knees when crawling around (particularly in No Man's Land, in the pitch dark!). Empty sand bags were often tied around the knees when required to offer a degree of protection. Contrary to what's said, the wet kilt seems to have dried in much the same time as trousers, if not sooner. It could also be taken off and hung around the neck to prevent it getting wet when slogging through deep mud and water and then put back on when drier ground was reached. In such situations, those wearing trousers would have to put up with cold, damp legs whereas the kilt wearer would be warm and dry, particularly in the nether regions!

The types of gas that caused severe blistering and chemical burns when in contact with damp flesh would have been problematic for the kilt wearer. I know I'm treading on controversial ground here, but undergarments were available for and issued to kilt wearers and such items would have helped to reduce (but not remove) the risk of chemical burns.

Lice were a major problem for all the troops regardless of the type of clothing they wore and at least the kilt wearer had the advantage that there were no seams (where lice would be found) in close and continuous contact with the length of the leg as would be the case when wearing trousers.

[Lachlan07]

Hello

There's an interesting story concerning a relative of mine and the kilt. My Gt Uncle David E. Robertson, S/9365, was a soldier of the 8th (Service) Btn Black Watch in the 9th Scottish Division. In December 1915 he wrote a one-page letter back home to his parents Musselburgh, Midlothian. The letter, on YMCA paper, seems to have been written in a hurry and uses up every bit of space, including around the margins. A mix of thoughts, recollections of people back home and a hint of his job (in a listening sap), he asks his mum a favour. He asks his mum to send on his old gardening trousers, as he wants to cut them down into shorts to wear under his kilt, as the weather in the trenches is so bitterly cold. A lot of his colleagues were doing something similar.

I must admit, I didn't realise that kilted troops had kilts withdrawn during winter from 1916 onward, though it would be a wise move in the bitter 1916 winter. Presumably this was post-November 1916, for as far as I'm aware, the 51st HD captured Beaumont-Hamel wearing the kilt.

I presume it could be possible that trousers were issued in winter, just as various British units were issued with shorts during hot weather and presumably had them withdrawn in winter.

When you think about it, apart from elan, what did kilts positively have to offer in such conditions ?

a) freedom of movement ?

Conversely, the negative points include:-

a) kilts were heavy when wet - although wet kilts were a fact of military highland dress in previous wars, the static underground conditions of the Great War made frequently wet kilts a health hazard - just as in the Crimean War.

kilts are usually cosy, providing a warm zone in the nether regions. However, hours of inaction in bitterly cold conditions can negate the effect.

c) kilts collected legions of lice in the pleats.

d) during assaults, kilts got easily caught in barbed wire, trapping the wearer like a fly in a web - various accounts refer to this.

e) Mustard gas - if limited exposure for standard uniformed troops could result in horrific blistering and burns, how much more so for kilted troops. You will recall a contra-measure was anti-gas drawers, which reputedly, because of anti-gas chemicals, gave a pink appearance. Kilties in pink panties ? Would you wear them ?

Though less picturesque, trousers made more sense !